...and thats what you think. Who are you again?? :looser:
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Evans width restriction
- Thread starter crash2
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...and thats what you think. Who are you again?? :looser:
skinny_pedal
Well-Known Member
Other than Evans closing in the winter life is good up there. Talking with the sheriff there not out to pop tickets. Biggest thing is just to keep the peace in the campground. I agree that lower 311 is weak now but I understand why it had to be done. In hindsight upper 311 has gotten a little more rowdy! The thing is make it what you want. I go up there everytime with a big ass smile on my face and find nothing to bitch about. If and when it's gone, then I'll bitch. 
heep70
Unsociable A--hole
Other than Evans closing in the winter life is good up there. Talking with the sheriff there not out to pop tickets. Biggest thing is just to keep the peace in the campground. I agree that lower 311 is weak now but I understand why it had to be done. In hindsight upper 311 has gotten a little more rowdy! The thing is make it what you want. I go up there everytime with a big ass smile on my face and find nothing to bitch about. If and when it's gone, then I'll bitch.
Well said :awesomework::beer:
I do not understand how they intend to keep the peace in the campground from the back of a 6X6 on the other side of the mountain. If it were about the campground they'd still be in a truck or SUV. I stand by my previous statement/prediction. Three months to a year from now their "tone" will change. Right now they are getting everyone used to seeing them.
I do not understand why anything "needed to be done" to the lower 311. I will continue to not understand as they decide what "needs to be done" to the rest of the trails.
Outside of that I only bitch because I know how diverse and cool Evans used to be. Being relatively new to wheeling myself (5 or 6 years) I have seen many changes over that short period of time. It is the rising tide, not the one thing.
Evans is what you get if Tahuya and Elbe had a kid together. The 520 is still the perfect example of a moderate trail. I ran it twice yesterday and enjoyed it thoroughly. The 197 is still good. I stopped on it yesterday and blocked off a new bypass that would spell disaster for one of my favorite sections on it. Thanks for the help with that 99redtj (Judd).
Evans is still a relevant place to go wheeling. I only bitch because if the tide keeps coming in at this rate, you'll have your only reason to bitch made reality sooner than you think.
:beer:
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
The more I think about it the more I come up with this conclusion.
Evans has been the same for many years--some aspects got harder some got easier. IMO it has nothing to do with how the trails are but rather our personal mindset.
Back when I had 33's and one locker evans was hard. As my rig progressed so did my experience and what my mind reads as hard. Now Evans is easy except with a foot of snow on the trails.
Some people progress thru the experience and whats deemed as hard.
These days I look as there is more to wheeling than wheeling--getting out in the woods and enjoying good company with good folks and enjoy getting back to my roots of why I started in this hobby in the first place..
mumblewood
Well-Known Member
Wasn't the 311 classified as either a more or most difficult trail? I seem to remember that maybe on an older map or something. If so then nothing needed to be done about it, except making it harder.
Binder
Well-Known Member
:awesomework::cheer:
The lower 311 was one of two most difficult trails at Evans. It used to be a good run locked up on 36s. Locked up on 33s had you winching a couple times if you wanted to keep the glass and axles alive. Now you can take a car through it and we are down to one remaining "most difficult" trail.
I am not complaining about Evans being too easy. I am complaining about it becoming easier. My rig is overbuilt for Evans and I know that. My rig is underbuilt for what keeps getting closed or paved into easy, leaving me overbuilt. By national standards I am underbuilt.
Evans was always a moderate park with a good blend of skill level trails. It should remain that way. If the Forest Service has its way applying the same treatment to the rest of the trails as it has to the lower 311 Evans will no longer be an ORV park.
What good is getting out with good friends in the woods enjoying nature in any kind of 4X4 if you are on the 197 and a stock Subaru Forester comes up behind your group, it's turtlenecked driver asking how to get back to the 196? If its just about being in the woods with friends then go hiking or fishing and save yourself a big chunk of change. I'm here to go Four Wheeling.
:beer:
heep70
Unsociable A--hole
Many years ago (I think it was the late 80s) the 311 was rated easy on a the ORV map. I was fooled by that on my first wheelin trip there in a 74 jimmy. I made it but it was easy. :eeek: They change that shortly after.
Most of what made the 311a whait is was bigger and bigger tigs. (Sorrythe greg) when we made that trail it was tight and twsty and moderatly difficult. Over the years people with to large of rigs and their chainsaws opened it up to what it is now. Evans has been loved to death. Years back you could come in on just about any weekend and get a camping spot. Now if your not there by noon on friday your most likly out of luck.
crazybluerider1
Well-Known Member
Would you agree that part of this is caused by a decrease in available areas to wheel?
Evans is for beginers!!! :flipoff::fawkdancesmiley::redneck:
I disagree with you here Mike. Check out major events nearly anywhere and you'll still see mainly average Jeeps running 35's. Certain areas have more buggy type rigs but there are still more areas that don't. If you're thinking about Cali, I'd be willing to bet that areas like Big Bear get far more traffic than the Hammers. When we were on the Rubicon earlier this summer the most radical rig we saw was in our group. It was the middle of the week but still, all we saw were very average rigs.
You've been to EJS in Moab, what did you see? More buggies than average rigs? Not a chance. Even at great spots like Area BFE you won't see more than a 100 buggy type rigs. There were thousands of average rigs in Moab. I don't disagree that there are a ton of very capable rigs out there but as those numbers increase, the number of average rigs goes up higher. Obviously, the sport is growing. At the same time we're seeing some buggy guys go back to a more average rig. Why? Because they are bored in their buggies.
The evolution of rigs has been a great help but we've also been our worst enemy. Before we built our rigs up, we could do everything well but the top 10%. Now, built up a bit, very little of that top 10% is a challenge and we're bored. Whose fault is that?
Personally, very rarely do I ever expect much of a challenge anymore when wheeling. Most of my wheeling now is just for the fun of meeting new people or being outdoors with friends. That's not to say that I don't enjoy challenges, I do, it's just that with a decently built rig, unless the weather is just right, there aren't that many challenges.
TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
True for me too. And I'll add; I enjoy new areas more than words can express. Even if the area is easy, there is something extraordinary about being able to witness Mother Nature's beauty for the first time.
If you go to a beach in California and you see 50 people surfing, how many of them will be professional surfers earning their livings in the waves? How many surfers would be capable of riding the giant funnel waves? Do the other 49 surfers there that day wish they could ride the big crazy waves the one guy can?
Do they install giant breakwaters just off the coastline made of crushed rock and excavator track to ensure no large waves make it to shore, thus allowing the other 49 surfers to be able to easily ride everything? Once the breakwaters are in and the waves are permanently dulled down (and this is key), how many surfers will aspire to be that one guy? How many will ride those same stupid sized waves for a month before selling their surf board to take up crochet? But but, I thought it was just about being on a beach with friends!
Will the one pro surfer sneak off to find the big waves not managed by the government? Could you blame the pro surfer for bitching about the lose of his real waves?
Buggy guys are simply people who take wheelin more seriously than a Korean War era spring under rig on 33s with limited slips and the entire family on board singing and clapping in synchronous. I built my rig for natural earth trails, not what the government recently seems to think a trail should be.
Do they install giant breakwaters just off the coastline made of crushed rock and excavator track to ensure no large waves make it to shore, thus allowing the other 49 surfers to be able to easily ride everything? Once the breakwaters are in and the waves are permanently dulled down (and this is key), how many surfers will aspire to be that one guy? How many will ride those same stupid sized waves for a month before selling their surf board to take up crochet? But but, I thought it was just about being on a beach with friends!
Will the one pro surfer sneak off to find the big waves not managed by the government? Could you blame the pro surfer for bitching about the lose of his real waves?
Buggy guys are simply people who take wheelin more seriously than a Korean War era spring under rig on 33s with limited slips and the entire family on board singing and clapping in synchronous. I built my rig for natural earth trails, not what the government recently seems to think a trail should be.
Look at the banner pics on this site. What is the average tire size? The average rig is on 35s and driven to the trail because that is tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than 39 inch stickies held together by a tube chassis sitting on a trailer connected to a diesel truck.
Buggys do not outnumber other rigs. The fact that I did see so many buggys at EJS is far more telling than the fact that JK dorks outnumbered them. (Disclaimer: not all JK owners are JK Dorks.) I say I am underbuilt by national standards because I am not using a 650 horsepower LS Whatever to spin comp cut non-sticky 44 inch TSLs through flipped 14 bolt steering axles front and rear, a setup considered standard in many states.
Buggys do not outnumber other rigs. The fact that I did see so many buggys at EJS is far more telling than the fact that JK dorks outnumbered them. (Disclaimer: not all JK owners are JK Dorks.) I say I am underbuilt by national standards because I am not using a 650 horsepower LS Whatever to spin comp cut non-sticky 44 inch TSLs through flipped 14 bolt steering axles front and rear, a setup considered standard in many states.
Fully :awesomework: Liabilty laws have created more of a problem for us than just about anything (well that and fish rules) but even that creates liability for land owners. Add to that tweeker methlabs and dumpers and you cant blame private landowners for locking down their lands. It just sucks for us because there were lots of great trails on private lands years back that we can no longer use :booo:
zuk88
Well-Known Member
I went there last Sunday and had a blast. I had 5 " to spare between the gate keepers and the work they did to the camp grounds and parking lots is great.It's been 2 years since I've been there and was good to go back.
It seems to me that liability is an issue that keeps coming up. Perhaps we should concentrate our efforts on that front. Tod (WOHVA) came up with a good bit of anti-liability proposal but it was shot down in Olympia by lawyers looking to retain our particular potential client pool. If we could get several large private businesses in on it and really advertise the thing we might have a chance of getting it.
From what I have been told if you are a rock climber the instant you physically climb onto a rock anyone and everyone is absolved of any liability. They have a law specifically catering to them. We need one too. Can we get the power together to force the issue?
We know where public land trails are going. Once the FS is done at Evans and the only trail in the Naches district they'll be off to Rimrock with their gravel and intolerance of good natural terrain. Then it is over for anything FS managed just like the Rubicon Trail which is being paved flat as we speak.
If we know public land wheelin is road or closed in five years lets start preparing now for private parks and southern Rock Rod style wheeling.
From what I have been told if you are a rock climber the instant you physically climb onto a rock anyone and everyone is absolved of any liability. They have a law specifically catering to them. We need one too. Can we get the power together to force the issue?
We know where public land trails are going. Once the FS is done at Evans and the only trail in the Naches district they'll be off to Rimrock with their gravel and intolerance of good natural terrain. Then it is over for anything FS managed just like the Rubicon Trail which is being paved flat as we speak.
If we know public land wheelin is road or closed in five years lets start preparing now for private parks and southern Rock Rod style wheeling.
FWIW- I know of 2 parks in the south that don't have any insurance-ZERO. The land is cheap and the property owner has the land isolated from his other property/investments. If he gets sued he'll file. EVERYONE knows he's not covered and he just uses peer pressure and public opinion to prevent suits. So far, nothing has happened but ya never know what's just around the corner.
