Manastash meadows up by the rocks.

[tomsbrokeagain]

I remember seeing the video...I assume these tracks were the result :eeek:

When I got to Funny rocks these tracks were not all there. There was only one trail that Poo, Joe (Six-Nine), others did on Saturday night. There tracks were single file where the trail goes. My group went thru the meadow (following their tracks) turned around and came back about an hour later and these tracks were there including the ones driving right past the "No Motor Vehicle" signs IIRC.

as far as "i was just following tracks through the snow" we all know that off trail is off trail. ya, if your on 6' of snow your not hurting anything but when the snow starts to melt and people follow where you have gone they get to ground somewhere and instead of backtracking they continue on and cause damage. we need to get these yahoo's to stay on the trails and not go overland at all.

I do whole heartedly believe in Marks statement. It is too easy for anyone unknowingly to "follow the leader" in the snow, get off course and by the end of a long weekend the trail (in the snow) has reached the ground and the "resource damage" has been done. You never REALLY know where the trail is in most of the open area's.

I think we are looking at a bunch of changes coming down the pipe...

Ya just wait for the 33 inch max tire and full street legal to come down the road:eeek:

Worst change of all would probably be putting the end to snow wheelin, i.e. no trail open till the snow is gone.:booo: where would the fun in that be?

 

[okeedokee]

here is a link of some other guys that were up there maybe ask one of them to see if they saw any body up in the area
http://www.pnwjeep.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16623&start=0

 

[CentralGrand]

here is a link of some other guys that were up there maybe ask one of them to see if they saw any body up in the area
http://www.pnwjeep.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16623&start=0

That was our group.. we never attempted to even go down one of the lines due to the fact we figured we'd rip the **** outta that hill headin to Tripod.

 

[Todd1803]

...not throwing anybody under the bus, just like to let them know we are interested in finding them...

Isn't it about time somebody goes under the bus???

It's the only way the assclowns who can't follow the rules will learn that there's no room left in this sport for their deplorable behavior.

 

[Binder]

Isn't it about time somebody goes under the bus???

It's the only way the assclowns who can't follow the rules will learn that there's no room left in this sport for their deplorable behavior.

Sure. You figure out for sure who did it and under the bus they go.

 

[okeedokee]

That was our group.. we never attempted to even go down one of the lines due to the fact we figured we'd rip the **** outta that hill headin to Tripod.

Not saying it was your group or any one in your group just said some one should ask you guys if you seen any body else out that day or the day before that was in the area in question

Thanks


So did you guys see any out there???????

 

[Big_MARK]

Sure. You figure out for sure who did it and under the bus they go.

Death by Bunga Bunga!!!!!


:haha::haha:

 

[dirk]

Here is what I believe. I believe those who are fighting for us wheelers are typicly the average "jeep guy". I feel there is nobody fighting for the "buggy" guys. From what I have seen over here on the west side--you typicly see the average wheeler who shows up to any type of organized work party, meeting and so forth--those groups who constantly try to keep the trails open. SO if there is no representaion and by that I mean more than "one" person--how are they going to get there voice or presence to those powers that do matter?

Exactly...the average "jeep guy" is probably a PNW4WDA member & has been fighting for our trails a lot longer than some of us have been alive...but take a look at what the PNW4WDA is driving:

-------PNW4WDA width poll ------> 92% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 8% are over 78"

Now look at what everyone else is taking to the trails:

-------NWW width poll ------> 40.5% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 59.5% are over 78"
-------WOW4x4 width poll ------> 30% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 70% are over 78"

Big difference :eeek:

We need the younger generation to get involved...otherwise the PNW4WDA is going to be the only voice the FS/DNR hears. I am pretty sure the good people of the PNW4WDA are not pushing for widening the trails, making them more difficult, or increasing rock areas. They are focused on getting back to what they started way back when...tight, twisty trails suitable for a short, narrow jeep.

How do I know? Read THIS thread from the PNW4WDA forum & tell us what you think. Those exact views/comments are what drove folks to form Wheelers of Washington. They were tired of not having a voice.

There are people in the 4x4 community that feel the big tire buggy guys are ruining our trails...I don't agree.

I firmly believe that the rig does not cause the damage...it is the driver that decides to turn the wheel & stomp on the skinny pedal.

:beer:

 

[dirk]

Looks like the lower section/staging area (if you call it that) of Funny Rocks, am I right???

You are correct :beer:

 

[greenie]

Not saying it was your group or any one in your group just said some one should ask you guys if you seen any body else out that day or the day before that was in the area in question

Thanks


So did you guys see any out there???????

nope.

 

[crash2]

Exactly...the average "jeep guy" is probably a PNW4WDA member & has been fighting for our trails a lot longer than some of us have been alive...but take a look at what the PNW4WDA is driving:

-------PNW4WDA width poll ------> 92% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 8% are over 78"

Now look at what everyone else is taking to the trails:

-------NWW width poll ------> 40.5% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 59.5% are over 78"
-------WOW4x4 width poll ------> 30% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 70% are over 78"

Big difference :eeek:

We need the younger generation to get involved...otherwise the PNW4WDA is going to be the only voice the FS/DNR hears. I am pretty sure the good people of the PNW4WDA are not pushing for widening the trails, making them more difficult, or increasing rock areas. They are focused on getting back to what they started way back when...tight, twisty trails suitable for a short, narrow jeep.

How do I know? Read THIS thread from the PNW4WDA forum & tell us what you think. Those exact views/comments are what drove folks to form Wheelers of Washington. They were tired of not having a voice.

There are people in the 4x4 community that feel the big tire buggy guys are ruining our trails...I don't agree.

I firmly believe that the rig does not cause the damage...it is the driver that decides to turn the wheel & stomp on the skinny pedal.

:beer:

I sure hope you are not preaching to me--if you are you are talking to the wrong person...

 

[jeffs_62]

Exactly...the average "jeep guy" is probably a PNW4WDA member & has been fighting for our trails a lot longer than some of us have been alive...but take a look at what the PNW4WDA is driving:

-------PNW4WDA width poll ------> 92% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 8% are over 78"

Now look at what everyone else is taking to the trails:

-------NWW width poll ------> 40.5% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 59.5% are over 78"
-------WOW4x4 width poll ------> 30% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 70% are over 78"

Big difference :eeek:

We need the younger generation to get involved...otherwise the PNW4WDA is going to be the only voice the FS/DNR hears. I am pretty sure the good people of the PNW4WDA are not pushing for widening the trails, making them more difficult, or increasing rock areas. They are focused on getting back to what they started way back when...tight, twisty trails suitable for a short, narrow jeep.

How do I know? Read THIS thread from the PNW4WDA forum & tell us what you think. Those exact views/comments are what drove folks to form Wheelers of Washington. They were tired of not having a voice.

There are people in the 4x4 community that feel the big tire buggy guys are ruining our trails...I don't agree.

I firmly believe that the rig does not cause the damage...it is the driver that decides to turn the wheel & stomp on the skinny pedal.

:beer:

I agree... it is the driver that decides which way he/she is going and how fast they get there. Policing ourseleves and each other is the best we can do.
I consider it a fairly good day of wheelin' if I get out of the trails with less than a shopping bag of empty beer cans and spare parts someone rubbed off on a tree or stump.
I have seen trails that are limited on vehicle width by putting rock blockades at 78" at the entrance and exit. I don't know if that will discourage wider vehicles or cause folks to attempt bypasses or some impromptu rock crawling.
All in all, if I am limited to a certain width I will build it that way. If I'm limited on tire size I'll build it that way. I don't want to see it happen so I will do what I can to appease the powers that be, and educate everyone I see on and off the trails.

 

[dirk]

I sure hope you are not preaching to me--if you are you are talking to the wrong person...

Nope...just expanding on the comment you made regarding no one fighting for the buggy owners.

I believe those who are fighting for us wheelers are typicly the average "jeep guy". I feel there is nobody fighting for the "buggy" guys.

:beer:

 

[Binder]

All in all, if I am limited to a certain width I will build it that way. If I'm limited on tire size I'll build it that way. I don't want to see it happen so I will do what I can to appease the powers that be.

That's fine for those that haven't built a rig yet. For the rest of us there will probably be a big effort and lawsuits involved. Unfortunately the likely outcome of a lawsuit will be a closure for everyone. I hope some of those PNW4WDA guys realise this. People aren't going to just go away if the rules change so you better represent them all.:cheer:

 

[dirtygoat]

Exactly...the average "jeep guy" is probably a PNW4WDA member & has been fighting for our trails a lot longer than some of us have been alive...but take a look at what the PNW4WDA is driving:

-------PNW4WDA width poll ------> 92% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 8% are over 78"

Now look at what everyone else is taking to the trails:

-------NWW width poll ------> 40.5% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 59.5% are over 78"
-------WOW4x4 width poll ------> 30% of rigs are 78" wide or less / 70% are over 78"

Big difference :eeek:

We need the younger generation to get involved...otherwise the PNW4WDA is going to be the only voice the FS/DNR hears. I am pretty sure the good people of the PNW4WDA are not pushing for widening the trails, making them more difficult, or increasing rock areas. They are focused on getting back to what they started way back when...tight, twisty trails suitable for a short, narrow jeep.

How do I know? Read THIS thread from the PNW4WDA forum & tell us what you think. Those exact views/comments are what drove folks to form Wheelers of Washington. They were tired of not having a voice.

There are people in the 4x4 community that feel the big tire buggy guys are ruining our trails...I don't agree.

I firmly believe that the rig does not cause the damage...it is the driver that decides to turn the wheel & stomp on the skinny pedal.

:beer:

I agree...:awesomework:

These next few years could be a big opportunity for everyone in the wheeling community to take a stand... Be it, big tire/little tire, narrow stance/wide stance, long wheelbase/short wheelbase...

Aren't we all as a group "Wheelers"???:eeek:

Just sayin'...

I sure hope you are not preaching to me--if you are you are talking to the wrong person...

I think you may have taken the fact that he quoted you, as a reference, the wrong way...:beer:

 

[bigiron]

I agree...:awesomework:

These next few years could be a big opportunity for everyone in the wheeling community to take a stand... Be it, big tire/little tire, narrow stance/wide stance, long wheelbase/short wheelbase...

Aren't we all as a group "Wheelers"???:eeek:

Just sayin'...

Luey you hit the nail on the head....(We as a usergroup that includes anything from street legal to fullon comp buggies need to unite and all catch the same train PNW4WDA , WOW all motorized groups ).....Because the usergroups that want US out of the woods are on the train in mass heading for the station.

 

[Homey]

why do alot of guys on here bash the pnw4wda???? true they might not be real active on the newer generation stuff... but if it wasnt for them there's alot of stuff we wouldnt have...people driving through meadows and tearing stuff has been going on since day one. problem now is theres just a bunch more people out on the trails. this memorial wkd @ liberty was the worst id ever seen anything get tore up...kinda sucks!!!!!

 

[bigiron]

why do alot of guys on here bash the pnw4wda???? true they might not be real active on the newer generation stuff... but if it wasnt for them there's alot of stuff we wouldnt have...people driving through meadows and tearing stuff has been going on since day one. problem now is theres just a bunch more people out on the trails. this memorial wkd @ liberty was the worst id ever seen anything get tore up...kinda sucks!!!!!

Who is bashing pnw4wda? all dirk metioned was that their rigs are smaller....we as a USER GROUP AS IN OFFROAD MOTORIZED USE need to stand together regardless of width or tire size buggy,truggy,quad.motorcycle otherwise it will go away......the oponents have very large numbers and some corprate backing helping them.

 

[dirk]

why do alot of guys on here bash the pnw4wda???? true they might not be real active on the newer generation stuff... but if it wasnt for them there's alot of stuff we wouldnt have...people driving through meadows and tearing stuff has been going on since day one. problem now is theres just a bunch more people out on the trails. this memorial wkd @ liberty was the worst id ever seen anything get tore up...kinda sucks!!!!!

I know the PNW4WDA has been fighting the good fight for many years, but I have had discussions on their forum that made me realize they are not supporting/representing a large portion of vehicles on the trails today.

I believe that tire and vehicle sizes should be limited on trails. And was involved in discussion about such with the authourity's having jurisdiction. The concenseous was that restrictions are discriminating against users and are not workable. They may change that attitude. With that being said you can now work to educate me that the destruction I have seen is not the result of tire size, vehicle size and irresponsable drivers.

Still comes down to resource damage. Wet soils are easily disturbed. Windfall trees cause bypass's. Snow on the ground causes bypass's.

The trails used to be tighter and more technical. With the straight line bypass' the trails are shorter. I fight for more trail by removing bypass's. I've been told that the jamboree permit authorizes us to use the trails. Bypass's are not part of the trail. Many of these bypass's are caused by what. The answer is..........Large vehicles on big tires driven by irresponsable users!!!

*****************************************

Now you come to the large tire large vehicle issue. These type vehicles can just flat out traverse the snow covered terrain better than the smaller vehicles. We won't make issue of the fact that they are on a trail designed for short whellbase/narrow tracked vehicle cause apparently everyone has the "RIGHT" to go where they please in any vehicle they see fit to use. They excercise the "Make the trail fit the vehicle" philosophy. Damage occurs. And they are somehow not held accountable and continue to deny their rigs are doing more damage to the trails than the smaller rigs.

Am I to believe that the short wheelbase/narrow tracked vehicle have somehow gone wild and widened the trails and dug holes the smaller rigs can not traverse. I think not. Study some of the terms that are used by the "Wilderness" crowd. They speak of their tranquility being disturbed. They also speak that they seek solitude and our actions disturb that and them. Well I seek tight techinical trails and they are becoming more and more scarce. Where are my rights? I also am concerned of the problems noted and worry of complete closures. We saw the beginings of this years ago and now we have met the enemy and it ain't necessarly them that are openly against us. Yeah the truth hurts.

**********************************************

I think what gets many of us old timer jeep guys so worked up is that we put in years of hard work into creating the trails. We did all of the legwork with the agencys to get the funding and do the studies and then we spent years of our free time building tight technical trails that were fun for us. Now fast forward to today and all of our trails we worked so hard on are no longer what they were. Bigger rigs with bigger tires have "ruined" all of our hard work just so they could play to. I have no problem with bigger rigs in fact I started out wheeling a 69 blazer when I joined my first "jeep" club I learned a very important lesson. They only let me drive my rig where it was appropriate, period. When we ran place like elbe or tighter trails I got to ride along in one of the more appropiate size rigs. This taught me when I was young at this to make your rig fit the trail dont make the trail fit your rig. Its just that simple. There is no reason why all of our tight trails had to be widened over the years to suit the "bigger" rigs. Why cant the "bigger" rigs do the same thing we did and do the years of work to build trails that fit ? seems simple to me.
For me the bottom line is pretty simple build your rig to fit the trail and use your rig in the appropiate place.

I am not saying that all PNW4WDA members feel this way, but some certainly do & it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. It shouldn't matter what kind of rig you drive...it should be how you use the rig that matters.

We need to be working together as a united front...pointing the finger & alienating part of the group isn't going to get us there.

:beer:

 

[Boonie Buster]

why do alot of guys on here bash the pnw4wda???? true they might not be real active on the newer generation stuff... but if it wasnt for them there's alot of stuff we wouldnt have...people driving through meadows and tearing stuff has been going on since day one. problem now is theres just a bunch more people out on the trails. this memorial wkd @ liberty was the worst id ever seen anything get tore up...kinda sucks!!!!!

So if the meadows have been getting tore up since day one and PNW4WDA has been around forever, seems to me they're not being effective...:stirpot:

But i think there could be a balance struck if people of both sides (never happen) can realize that big and small tires can play together.

The old timers (PNW4WDA) don't want change because they're a bunch of old coots. :fawkdancesmiley: and the new guys (my generation) are too damn dumb to respect anything since the old timers (their parents who put together PNW4WDA) didn't teach them properly.