Matt O's Ultra4 Buggy - EOR Racing #4462

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

The built-in bump is the last 1.5" of compression stroke. We are talking infinately variable height and dampening, as well as you can adjust the speed of the rebound, from slow to fast. Not trying to spend your money, just saying we have/had what sounds like the same issue. We fought it a little, but for the small cost to upgrade after selling my airshocks and bumps it made SO much sense. You will have to retab, because of width and bolt hole size. But with prefab tabs, sawzall, and P's weldering skills you'll be done in a day.

 

[P]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Whats the OD of the body of the struts.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

The built-in bump is the last 1.5" of compression stroke. We are talking infinately variable height and dampening, as well as you can adjust the speed of the rebound, from slow to fast. Not trying to spend your money, just saying we have/had what sounds like the same issue. We fought it a little, but for the small cost to upgrade after selling my airshocks and bumps it made SO much sense. You will have to retab, because of width and bolt hole size. But with prefab tabs, sawzall, and P's weldering skills you'll be done in a day.

How much wider are the tabs? My current tabs are setup with the extra misalignment spacers and I was thinking they may be wide enough. I need to measure them and see the width, but they have the stock spacers and an extra spacer on each side. I am kinda thinking that this may be a cheaper option for me than paying to have the bumps fabbed up. If my tabs will work as is then it may really be a sweet option!

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Whats the OD of the body of the struts.

Damn son, I dont know, but I think around 4"
My buggy is in KS otherwise, i'd measure for ya.

How much wider are the tabs? My current tabs are setup with the extra misalignment spacers and I was thinking they may be wide enough. I need to measure them and see the width, but they have the stock spacers and an extra spacer on each side. I am kinda thinking that this may be a cheaper option for me than paying to have the bumps fabbed up. If my tabs will work as is then it may really be a sweet option!

1.6"

Yeah that would be sweet as hell if you were already hooked up for it. If yours are slightly too wide for even that then you could weld washers in as spacers. SWEET!

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Damn son, I dont know, but I think around 4"
My buggy is in KS otherwise, i'd measure for ya.
1.6"

Yeah that would be sweet as hell if you were already hooked up for it. If yours are slightly too wide for even that then you could weld washers in as spacers. SWEET!

Yeah the next problem is the body of the shock, might be too wide for the upper shock mount as it is built into the chasis. What is different between the two versions of the shocks? Looks like the ST shocks might be a slimmer package

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

So I have 2.25" between tabs. Guess I will look for some spacers to make up the difference in width from 1.6 to 2.25. I think I am going to go with the struts up front for sho.

Kelly can you get me a measurement from the center of the top bolt hole to the start of the 4" shock body? Wanna make sure they will clear my upper tube work.

 

[vanguard]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Guess I will look for some spacers to make up the difference in width from 1.6 to 2.25.

I'm not sure if it's too redneck for you but I know a couple of builds around here that use black pipe from HD/Lowes for that sort of thing. It comes in a lot of diameters so you can grab a bolt from the bin, find a good fit, and buy just the amount you need. I used it to sleeve my lower link mounts through the frame and it's not one of the things that I ever worry about.

(I just gave links so my pics don't sidetrack your build thread)
http://www.just4fun.org/images/buggy/rear%20axle%20and%20suspension%20project/SANY0095.JPG
http://www.just4fun.org/images/buggy/rear%20axle%20and%20suspension%20project/SANY0100.JPG

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Matt what are the bolt sizes on your tabs. The ORI's are 5/8". That was the problem on mine. Mine were 1.5"s and you could have hammered them wider, but I was rocking 3/8" hardware.

If yout tabs are so wide now, then it would be nothing to cut one off and weld the new one in closer.

The ST is the one all the crawlers/racers are running and it is slimmer than the DP3. Damn I wish I had a way to measure for ya right now.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Matt what are the bolt sizes on your tabs. The ORI's are 5/8". That was the problem on mine. Mine were 1.5"s and you could have hammered them wider, but I was rocking 3/8" hardware.

If yout tabs are so wide now, then it would be nothing to cut one off and weld the new one in closer.

The ST is the one all the crawlers/racers are running and it is slimmer than the DP3. Damn I wish I had a way to measure for ya right now.

My hardware is 1/2". It says on the ORI site that they come in 1/2 or 5/8 hardware. Should be no issue there. I will call them tommorrow and fire away with questions

 

[blacksheep10]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

call me in the afternoon. I'll measure whatever you need on wyatt's and set you up with a better price than they give racers.

 

[wngrog]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Matt, I really think any upgrade to your 2.0 airshocks would be a major upgrade for the race.

From what I have observed, the ORI (not- eally) Struts are cool. I think you would be much, much happier with them on your buggy.

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Nolen can vouch as well. After watching Dave Smith, Levi Shirley, and me hitting jumps against a field of non-struted vehichles in Indiana was selling enough.

Something about the struts make buggys take off and landings not only feel smooth but look even smoother. I've not seen mine from outside but inside it feels like I've never left the ground. But watching Levi, it was night and day to everyone else in the air.

I'm not saying you'll be out airing yours out all the time, but if they react so well there, you can imagine their characteristics for slower speed stuff.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I agree, my front airshocks hurt me when I am getting it. At KOTH it was rough on the vehicle and in the seat.

I messed around with the hi-lift with no N2 in the shocks last night and at full bump I still have 3" of shaft showing in the front. In real life when the landing is more violent I am sure the bump compresses another inch at least. If it were to compress more (say full bottom out the air shock) my links will hit the oil pan and the uppers will hit the frame. So what I am getting at is that I really need to figure out how the bumpstop works on the ORI's. Is it tuneable, can you increase the bump stop travel and make the shock bottom out with 2-3 inches of shaft still showing? Should I just go with a shorter strut, like 12" instead of 14"?

 

[under_psi]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

i am sure kelly and wyatt can elaborate more, but that IS the beauty of the ORI struts...

they are tunable for ride height and for the bump stop....which is built in to the last 3" of the actual shock travel length....

they way that the guy in atlanta explained it to me is that it IS the way to go....sounds good...i would try them for ease of operation, but i just cant pony up the coin or wait to sell my coilovers....tooo tooo broke to make that cal.....

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

yes matt you can tune the bumpstops. You just add more NO2 to the bottom.

You want 14's for the front, I know you cant swings 16's. Levis running front 16's and I'm jeolous.
As for tuning. I wish I had a bunch of profound learning experiences for you, tons of trail and error type stuff. But I dont.

Dave Smith "GC FIVE-O" helped out. We stole his playbook effectively. He experiemented with tons of different configurations. And finally got his dialed in over the course of 5-6 months. He helped us out. The 1st time out was damn near perfect, we added a touch to the bottoms after that, but he got us super super close.

Kelly will have to back me up but I'm pretty sure I'm running 175psi top, and 70psi bottom.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

yes matt you can tune the bumpstops. You just add more NO2 to the bottom.

You want 14's for the front, I know you cant swings 16's. Levis running front 16's and I'm jeolous.
As for tuning. I wish I had a bunch of profound learning experiences for you, tons of trail and error type stuff. But I dont.

Dave Smith "GC FIVE-O" helped out. We stole his playbook effectively. He experiemented with tons of different configurations. And finally got his dialed in over the course of 5-6 months. He helped us out. The 1st time out was damn near perfect, we added a touch to the bottoms after that, but he got us super super close.

Kelly will have to back me up but I'm pretty sure I'm running 175psi top, and 70psi bottom.

How does the oil work? I take you can add and remove just like air shocks right? Did you guys add any oil

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

whatever oil you add decreases the usable shock.
We are running stock oil amount. no idea what that is, we didnt add or remove a drop.
But yes same fork oil, and you can use it to tune.

 

[blacksheep10]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Mark has told me time and again to not touch the oil amount in the shock. it is set. You set your hieghts and stiffnesses with air. Super ****ing easy. no syringes or measurements, just put the **** in and go.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I talked to Mark and Kelly both today. I need to do some measuring on my rig and see. I may end up having to go the the air bump route as I can set them to bottom out exactly where I need them. In my situation if I were to bottom out the ORI strut it would do some damage to other components like links and oil pan. With the ORI's when the bump comes into play is dependant on the shock mounting points. My shock mounts need to have less distance between them which I think is slim and none from happening. IMO the "bump stop" that ORI says is built in is not a true bump stop, it is just a different hydro cylinder that has its own compression and rebound valving. You cannot actually tune it to stop the travel at point X, it will just slow it down. It may be "really hard" to bottom the shock out past the "bump stop". but it can happen which will mean disaster for me.

 

[blacksheep10]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

just talked to mark. the eye to eye on teh 16 is 23" at full bump. if your eyes are about there at full bump (1/2" before danger zone/damage time) you are golden with these. If you are more than 23 at full bump, the links will hit the oil pan first, OR we could put some new lower tabs on an inch higher or whatever it takes. shoot me the pics of the lower mounts. I want to see.