Matt O's Ultra4 Buggy - EOR Racing #4462

[P]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I know you dont want to hear it Matt...

But seriously, rasing your rig 2 inches would make ALL the difference in the world all the way around, and I dont think it would effect it in an adverse way one bit what so ever. trail riding, your the FIRST one to belly out. Your rig is way stable and I dont think a minimal increase overall would hurt that noticably at all.

Keep what you got, N2 bump it , and rock the fawk out.

Or throw money and parts at it and start over with setup.... just my .02

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I like the way Paul is thinking. What are you out to try that route?
You have the airbumps and mounts already correct?

So you are out some fab time weldering them in and pads on the axle. Will it be alot involved?
I would try this route, and it it still is a problem then move over to the struts. That is certainly a way to try out what you already own. Worst case you wheel it for a couple hours and realize its wait to topsy and lower it back down.

Run whatcha got if it solves it badass, if not sell and strut it, you'll never look back promise.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I will post up some pics, the problem is the mounts just have to stay where they are. Not enough real estate to move them around lower or higher. I have already raised the ride height, I did it last night. I raised it an inch all the way around. I also dumped a ton of oil in the shocks. I am headed down now to pull the poly bumps and get some measurements. I appreciate all the input and ideas, just need to break out the tape and get some good numbers.

 

[P]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I will post up some pics, the problem is the mounts just have to stay where they are. Not enough real estate to move them around lower or higher. I have already raised the ride height, I did it last night. I raised it an inch all the way around. I also dumped a ton of oil in the shocks. I am headed down now to pull the poly bumps and get some measurements. I appreciate all the input and ideas, just need to break out the tape and get some good numbers.

I assure you even at that... there IS ROOM to put N2's on the front of your rig. Its not near as cramped as alot of small tight buggies up front. I mean , you like to research, how many S&N buggies you think have ran into the same issue and over came that ? PBB brutha, **** DSI... I bet his has / had proper bumps up front.

CREATIVE Seriously, there is room to put proper bumps in the front of that buggy. I have NO doubt in my mind.

Not tryin to discourage... just saying, you have TIME on your side, make a well thought out desicion. Dont chase this rig like you did the TJ brotha. You'll just get pissed off at it and its way to nice for that.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I assure you even at that... there IS ROOM to put N2's on the front of your rig. Its not near as cramped as alot of small tight buggies up front. I mean , you like to research, how many S&N buggies you think have ran into the same issue and over came that ? PBB brutha, **** DSI... I bet his has / had proper bumps up front.

CREATIVE Seriously, there is room to put proper bumps in the front of that buggy. I have NO doubt in my mind.

Not tryin to discourage... just saying, you have TIME on your side, make a well thought out desicion. Dont chase this rig like you did the TJ brotha. You'll just get pissed off at it and its way to nice for that.

P, I have been researching for months and have talked with Jason @ S&N. I know that there is plenty of room for N2 bumps on mine, even the long 4" ones. I was only looking at the struts because I have heard good things about them and I could sell my cans, bumps and airs and only be out of pocket about $250 for the struts. That said, I just don't see it being possible without a bottom tab rework and even with that the lower tab would have to go up 1.5" inches. I measured tonight with the poly bumps pulled and the lowest I can get between the shock mounts is 22.5". That is the absolute lowest it can go and there can be ZERO wiggle room. At that height the lowers are 1/4" from the oil pan, uppers are 1/2" from the chassis and 1/4" from the manifolds. Tie rod has 1/4" clearance to the frame. It is beyond crazy tight on everything.

I think it makes sense to go with N2 bumps since I can set them at a safe height so that even at full bump with a tons of momentum nothing is in harms way. Even if I pay to have them professionally done it will not cost me much more than the extra I would be out for the struts. Struts would be cool, but it is just too fine a line to risk them bottoming out and killing components.

I took a bunch of pics to get your ideas for bumps and show you all what I am working with. I also raised the front up a touch more and the rig has a good bit more belly. I will try it out the next two weekends and see how it feels with more oil and N2 in it.

Lower Shock Mounts. If I move it higher up on the C and make it longer for the struts then the body of the shock (at the top) will be in the chassis. It is almost maxed out on misalignment up top as it is. If i move down on the tube I will loose the lean I have in the shock mounting now, and the buggy would be unstable.

Lower Link clearance at oil pan

View of front suspension at full bump

Pass Side Clearance (Headers are on upper links and close to the mounter mount area of the chasis.

Driver Side Clerance

Upper Shock Mounts, kinda hard to redo these

View of shock

Other problem is that close to full droop this happens

These last two pics are of S&N's most recent build. Notice the front bump mounts

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Ah ok, I know understand your uppermounts those are cool.

What size airshocks are those? 16's? they look long as hell.

That said, all you'd have to do, is change the lower tabs to run struts. That is so much less work than mine was, I would be all over the change. All of the issues you mentioned can be fixed with the struts. If you are going to pay someone to setup your airbumps, I think I'd spend my money on struts and retab your lower mounts yourself with Paul (sorry to volunteer ya Paul). Cause even after paying to have those bumps installed you'll still be on airshocks and airbumps.

I was of the run whatchu got until you said you'd be paying a shop to install them.



I mean look at this pic, what will you lose by cutting these tabs and moving them down the "C" 1.5"s? I think I'd make the new tabs to come off the axle tube and also be welded up the "C". You'd be bracing that "C" and better distibuting the forces from the suspension. Just my opinion, I think you'd be miles ahead and happier making the switch if it is a wash on dollars outside of Paul welding 4 new simple tabs on for ya.

 

[Bones]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I think Matt's big issue is the strut "bumpstop" not being enough to stop it properly before mass carnage ensues with everything.

That is a lot going on under there!

 

[P]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Matt would have a really bad day if he didnt get bumped 100% on a hard landing, Engine carnage, tranny carnage... just bad news everywere.


That OD green buggy is fuggin titties.... love that color !! drool

 

[wontwork]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I would just go struts if it is only gona cost you 250 extra. I woulddo this before I would start moving mounts and remaking mounts. Sometimes when you start dong all that you can make a little problem a big problem.

O by the way I know someone that might by your bumps.

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Matt would have a really bad day if he didnt get bumped 100% on a hard landing, Engine carnage, tranny carnage... just bad news everywere.


That OD green buggy is fuggin titties.... love that color !! drool

Set the strut to bottom out at the 1/4" before carnage. That way the last 3"s of shaft is the internal bumpstop, slowing everything down. You can not hurt these things by full bottoming out is what I was told. And if the strut is mounted to completely be collapsed before carnage then you solved the issue.

I would think looking at the pics, reading the measurements, and knowing the struts you'd be set with the 14" ones, and moving your lower mount down.

Not trying to sell you anything, just offering advice. Just trying to put the best information infront of you to make the best well informed descision.

 

[Travis]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I know you dont want to hear it Matt...

But seriously, rasing your rig 2 inches would make ALL the difference in the world all the way around, and I dont think it would effect it in an adverse way one bit what so ever. trail riding, your the FIRST one to belly out. Your rig is way stable and I dont think a minimal increase overall would hurt that noticably at all.

I raised mine up around 2-2.5" from where I originally built it, and it made all the difference. I rarely bottom it out anymore unless I really launch it. A year or two ago, low was where it was at and that is awesome for crawling. But things have been getting faster and faster, which is a blast by the way, and the low slung suspensions can't take it. You need more uptravel to really haul ass without beating yourself to death.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Wyatt, I would have to move my lower mounts UP 1.5" to make the 14"s work and not destroy my rig on a hard bottom out. The math is simple, at 1/4" before complete disaster on bump the distance between my shock mounts is 22.5". Mark told me the struts don't use the last .5" of shaft after a recent redesign. So the full collapsed length of the 14" strut is 20.9". If my rig gets to 20.9" bad things happen, I have to move the mounts by a tad over 1.5" so when the strut bottoms the mounts are less than 20.9". Upper tabs being redone, no chance. Lowers moved higher up the C's is out since the strut body will rub at the top of the mount. Lowering the tab at the axle makes the problem worse by increasing the distance, so I am left with having a huge ape hanger bracket in the same exact spot, just 1.5" taller. That makes me worry as when the struts do fully bottom the mount will take all of that force as it is also the bump. Tons of stress on my ape hanger mounts is not good, Mark said that on the phone.

Moving the tabs to the axle and running a 16" shock will make the shock mounts completely vertical, so no lean in the shock mounting. Which means it will cam over itself all the time and feel tippy.

My suspension works fine, I don't feel like it is floppy or unstable. I am just trying to get a proper bumpstop so that the poly blocks stop bending my heims. That is all I am going for. Would a strut be a better ride and performance than an air shock and air bump combo, probably so. I just don't like the idea of a "valving" bumpstop. I need a bump to completely stop my axle from hitting the chassis, no wiggle room. Reports of the ORI built in bumps are all over the board from 1.5 to 3" of travel. Mark said yesterday it is just the last 1" of travel. Also, Wyatt my front shocks are 14" Fox 2.0" Airs.

If I go the air bump route I will probably end up setting it up in the shop (hopefully P will help me ;D), I would like to have Dan cut me some landing pads and can gussets so it will look sharp and will not involve having to fab those pieces. Then all we need to do is set it up at full bump correctly and weld it all up.

 

[wontwork]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

This is gettin more and more technical.

Holla if you need some plate cutt or holes punched. Got an ironworker that loves cuttin up stuff.

 

[InDaShop]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Looks like you are in a pickle and looked at all the options.
Sucks you can't easily throw struts on.
Sorry about the bump info I swear I had 1.5 in my head and then doubted that for the 3"s. But I now know where I got the 1.5 its the 1" plus the last 1/2" that isn't usable.
I know the 16"s were longer than my 16" airs so I'm actually surprised the 14" are shorter than 14" airs. I am running 14" struts on my front but had 16" airs there so I didn't have a comparison. Sorry.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I would just go struts if it is only gona cost you 250 extra. I woulddo this before I would start moving mounts and remaking mounts. Sometimes when you start dong all that you can make a little problem a big problem.

O by the way I know someone that might by your bumps.

Yeah for that reason I am just gonna run with bumps. I don't wanna change my mounts at all, they buggy and all the others they build are setup the exact same reason. Don't wanna fawk with a good thing. I just need to get some eyes on my setup and figure out the best approach to an axle landing pad. The chassis mount is straight forward. Haley I may take you up on the bracketry creation. Need landing pads and can gussets for sure.

 

[wontwork]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Measurements or a cardboard templit is all I need.

 

[BamaTJ]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Coolness, I will get you something when I start fawking with it. Probably end of the month. Also, can you turn down 8-1/2" spacers for me by 1/16"? I know a grinder will work, but I wanna make sure it is exact since they are for heim misalignment.

 

[wontwork]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

Coolness, I will get you something when I start fawking with it. Probably end of the month. Also, can you turn down 8-1/2" spacers for me by 1/16"? I know a grinder will work, but I wanna make sure it is exact since they are for heim misalignment.

All I got are grinders. No mill.

 

[John Galbreath Jr.]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

I just need to get some eyes on my setup and figure out the best approach to an axle landing pad.

Look at mine on the single seater this weekend. Mine are large due to the axel moving sideways, due to the 3 link.

 

[blacksheep10]

Re: Matt O's S&N Fab Buggy Updates & KOH Prep/Rebuild

not going to read all that, but the 16" at full bump, 100% no more compression is 23" long. that is at the bottom of the travel. the bump is the last inch of travel. you only have to move 1 tab to run them, and that's cut the rear one on the bottom off and move it out 1/4" or so, then weld it back on. Matt, that is the most simple lower tab I've ever seen with all kinds of room.