naches/manastash memorial day???

shrek1 · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Its great to be funny but the truth is the users brought this on themselves. Some of us have been telling you for years this was coming but you would'nt listen. Instead you just continued to build bigger and badder machines so you could "really tear it up" now we have trails that are torn up and impassable to the "average" user when wet and spiderwebs of trails where there should only be one. The users failed to police themselves so the Government is going to do it for us. This sucks and it sucks for all of us. All because of a minority of users that just cant accept the few rules to follow to keep OUR trails open. I dont know what its going to take to open peoples eyes to the reality of the way things are but maybe this will help. Its just a shame that it came to this:booo:

By "you" I use it as a general term.

Whos side are you on?You almost sound happy about this maby you should just get some bigger tires and grow with the sport like everyone else.

dirtygoat · Apr 15, 2011

Let's keep this on topic and stop all the pissing matches...:fawkdancesmiley:

Poohbair · Apr 15, 2011

dirtygoat said:
Let's keep this on topic and stop all the pissing matches...:fawkdancesmiley:

On topic? This thread has been off topic for the last 10 pages... :flipoff:

whatthe? · Apr 15, 2011

It'd be great to go back to the day when 33's were big tires and everybody had short and narrow jeeps, no EFI. We should also toss our cell phones and computers. Sorry, wheeling has evolved and the FS can't keep up so they shut it down. If a rig on 33's can't do a trail, a better rig needs to be built. Everyone needs to stay on trail, LEO's have done a lousy job of enforcing that. Let the trails get nasty, I'll build a rig that can do it or I'll stay on the green dots and complain how bad the trails are with my out of date 1970's jeep on 33's

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

whatthe? said:
It'd be great to go back to the day when 33's were big tires and everybody had short and narrow jeeps, no EFI. We should also toss our cell phones and computers. Sorry, wheeling has evolved and the FS can't keep up so they shut it down. If a rig on 33's can't do a trail, a better rig needs to be built. Everyone needs to stay on trail, LEO's have done a lousy job of enforcing that. Let the trails get nasty, I'll build a rig that can do it or I'll stay on the green dots and complain how bad the trails are with my out of date 1970's jeep on 33's

No they cant keep up and this is what people dont understand. Their hands are tied.Tied by lack of funds and Tied by laws created by congress and agencys like the fish and wildlife. It would be great to just be able to do what we want. hell 20 years ago (and sooner) we were able to drive x country just about anywhere as long as we wernt doing harm. What we have to deal with now sucks plain and simple but its us that need to evolve and learn to work withen the rules because quite simply we suck at working together. If we could do that we could actualy make some changes.

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

shrek said:
Whos side are you on?You almost sound happy about this maby you should just get some bigger tires and grow with the sport like everyone else.

Happy :eeek: just how do you get that:booo: Due to the actions of others I can no longer use the trails that I worked to maintain and build for the last 30 years. I am not happy in fact I am quite pissed off about the whole mess and the people that brought this action down upon us.

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

Poohbair said:
On topic? This thread has been off topic for the last 10 pages... :flipoff:

Yea I know. I have let it go on because I hope there's lessons to be learned coming from it.

shrek1 · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Happy :eeek: just how do you get that:booo: Due to the actions of others I can no longer use the trails that I worked to maintain and build for the last 30 years. I am not happy in fact I am quite pissed off about the whole mess and the people that brought this action down upon us.

Your last statement just seems like your rubing our faces in it.Keep fighting the good fight maby im just pissed to:awesomework:I just no if we give them a inch they will take a mile and I dont feel like many people care.I guess I better get over it.:booo:

Jay W · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Instead you just continued to build bigger and badder machines so you could "really tear it up"

Typical old guy mentality.:hi:

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

Jay W said:
Typical old guy mentality.:hi:

Now thats just plain mean :booo:

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

shrek said:
Your last statement just seems like your rubing our faces in it.Keep fighting the good fight maby im just pissed to:awesomework:I just no if we give them a inch they will take a mile and I dont feel like many people care.I guess I better get over it.:booo:

I just want people to wake up to the reality of the situation. I am sorry if it comes across wrong but its hard to put into words sometimes. We as a group need to come together and work on real remedys to cure these problems. If we cant then were doomed to let agencys like the FS make all of the decissions for us.

whatthe? · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
No they cant keep up and this is what people dont understand. Their hands are tied.Tied by lack of funds and Tied by laws created by congress and agencys like the fish and wildlife. It would be great to just be able to do what we want. hell 20 years ago (and sooner) we were able to drive x country just about anywhere as long as we wernt doing harm. What we have to deal with now sucks plain and simple but its us that need to evolve and learn to work withen the rules because quite simply we suck at working together. If we could do that we could actualy make some changes.

The rules need to change and be enforced. I don't buy that their hands are tied. They're just not enforcing the rules. How many LEO's (FS, DNR, wardens, sherriff,) have been laid off the last five years? They're all still around. We're all being punished for the actions of the few. That's wrong and needs to change. You grant freedom to the majority and arrest the minority who break the law.

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

whatthe? said:
The rules need to change and be enforced. I don't buy that their hands are tied. They're just not enforcing the rules. How many LEO's (FS, DNR, wardens, sherriff,) have been laid off the last five years? They're all still around. We're all being punished for the actions of the few. That's wrong and needs to change. You grant freedom to the majority and arrest the minority who break the law.

Dont take this personaly because its not

This post is exactly what I mean by people not understanding. FS leos are funded by congress and their few and far between most of them have to cover huge areas and quite honestly are spread way too thin. I dont believe that Naches even has a regular LEO on staff. If they do I never met him. They have had in the past support from the Yakima county sherrifs office. They even have a ORV section on their force. Unfortunatly that program has been besieged with budget cuts and is nothing like it was. This leaves the FS with rangers and FPOs (forest protection officers) They to have to cover huge areas and just cant do it all. Much of the funding for E&E programs has been funded by the NOVA funds. We all know what happened to those:booo:.
We need more funding and thats the bottom line. We need to flood our senators with letters and e-mails telling them to work on funding LEOs to protect our resources. We need our NOVA program working as it should. Without funding the FS has little or no choice but to close what it dosent have the manpower to regulate by the rules that tie their hands.

boardbysled · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Instead you just continued to build bigger and badder machines so you could "really tear it up" now we have trails that are torn up and impassable to the "average" user .

pokey said:
but its us that need to evolve and learn to work withen the rules because quite simply we suck at working together. If we could do that we could actualy make some changes.

Sorry, I can't stand hypocrisy, and these two quotes are full of them

pokey said:
impassable to the "average" user when wet and spiderwebs of trails where there should only be one.

Hypothetical question, what is the average user?:corn:

Jay W · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Now thats just plain mean :booo:

And you're selfish blaming everyone else. You have probably never spun a tire. :cheer:

whatthe? · Apr 15, 2011

pokey said:
Dont take this personaly because its not

This post is exactly what I mean by people not understanding. FS leos are funded by congress and their few and far between most of them have to cover huge areas and quite honestly are spread way too thin. I dont believe that Naches even has a regular LEO on staff. If they do I never met him. They have had in the past support from the Yakima county sherrifs office. They even have a ORV section on their force. Unfortunatly that program has been besieged with budget cuts and is nothing like it was. This leaves the FS with rangers and FPOs (forest protection officers) They to have to cover huge areas and just cant do it all. Much of the funding for E&E programs has been funded by the NOVA funds. We all know what happened to those:booo:.
We need more funding and thats the bottom line. We need to flood our senators with letters and e-mails telling them to work on funding LEOs to protect our resources. We need our NOVA program working as it should. Without funding the FS has little or no choice but to close what it dosent have the manpower to regulate by the rules that tie their hands.

I don't entirely believe this. There is only a certain amount of road, it's not that huge of an area. Besides, the "damage" occurs in the same spot every year. If you know a crime is going to occur every year on the same day in the same spot my guess is it could be prevented or prosecuted. Take the mud pit on the east side of the trail between the funny and moon rocks. I guess I have a belief that at the top level of the FS they want land closed. It just makes too much sense. Managing forest would be cake if there were no people. When I was in college a lot of the people going into biology/ecology/forestry mgt were greenies. Eventually those people get to the top and set the agenda.:booo:

Poohbair · Apr 15, 2011

... the only answer is pretty simple...

there is no answer that will keep everyone happy...

The "off-road" community has way too many disputes / arguments within itself to come to a common ground about anything...

Old School vs. New School
Jeeps vs. Toyota
Fullsize vs. Everyone else
Buggys vs. Full bodied
Big Tire vs. Small tire
Mud vs. Rocks
V8 vs. 4cyl

yada ****ing yada...

pokey · Apr 15, 2011

whatthe? said:
I don't entirely believe this. There is only a certain amount of road, it's not that huge of an area. Besides, the "damage" occurs in the same spot every year. If you know a crime is going to occur every year on the same day in the same spot my guess is it could be prevented or prosecuted. Take the mud pit on the east side of the trail between the funny and moon rocks. I guess I have a belief that at the top level of the FS they want land closed. It just makes too much sense. Managing forest would be cake if there were no people. When I was in college a lot of the people going into biology/ecology/forestry mgt were greenies. Eventually those people get to the top and set the agenda.:booo:

And theres yet another huge problem that we face. They dont teach about motorized recreation in forestry programs. Most people that go to school to become foresters do so for their love of the forests. All they know is their aspect of it and theres no one to teach them about all of the "other" uses.
We (PNW4WDA) try and battle this issue by having good communication with the rangers and being involved in the process as things go. We also try and put together from time to time ride alongs as well as synposiums (sp) to try and educate them about our use. No matter what its a constant uphill battle just trying to get beyond the basics they learned in school.

Binder · Apr 15, 2011

whatthe? said:
my guess is it could be prevented or prosecuted.

You're "guessing" that prosecution is even a possibility.....There's only so much they can do.
I get the feel from reading many peoples posts that they assume off roading is as important to forest managers as it is to us. "Those other guys" be it forest managers, greenies, law makers, general public, etc don't hold wheeling near and dear like we do. Why would they expend their efforts to keep us doing what we want when it's much easier for them to just close things down?.....Their point of view is what's happening on the trails is our fault. If good things were to happen out there it would be due to us. If bad things happen it's our doing as well....We can argue forever about what is, isn't or shouldn't be resource damage but the present reality is leaving ruts/ bogs behind us is not acceptable. The FS will get their ass sued by the greenies if they let these things continue to happen and not take action.
Remember wheeling isn't important to them so what action do you suppose they should take?
:corn: