new trans or t-case gears, or BOTH?

[nevada]

sorry, i want sure exactly where to put this...move if its needed, thanks.

ok, after coming back here, and reading through some wheeling posts. im getting an itch to get my rig back up in the hills. mechanically, its READY to go. other things are holding me back.

BUT, anyway...
heres the rig, and the question.
85 yota
302/c4
5.29's/spools
etc
etc...
with the c4, ive got a CR of like 29:1 its very high. the only saving grace is the torque from the motor. which when in HEAVY snow, or mud, gets the trans quite warm.

ive got an np435 just WAITING to go in. i do need an adapter still.
have also been thinking about some t-case gears.
i think the 4.7's would be cheaper. but would they be the better choice?
i dont do MUCH "rock crawling" but..i pretty much wheel whatever is in front of me.
i prefer technical trails, and snow wheeling(snow on a techy trail is REALLY good)

so if you made it this far in my rambling, thank you, and heres the question(s).

should i toss the 435 in, and go?
slap in the 4.7's?

or...do one, and PLAN on doing the other aswell.


**oh, and i really PREFER an actual shifter, over a slush box. so im
biased toward the trans swap**

thanks for any help, or suggestions.
nevada

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Having many friends running a v8 and slushbox I'd put stock geared duals in there... That will give you the best of all worlds without the headache of swapping the np435 into the rig.

 

[64FJ40]

Isn't the rule of thumb that a torque convertor effectively doubles your 'crawl' ratio? So that 435 really wouldn't be that much different at slow speeds (except for compression braking of course).

It seems like you'd gain a lot more bang for your buck with duals and a good tranny cooler.

 

[nevada]

Having many friends running a v8 and slushbox I'd put stock geared duals in there... That will give you the best of all worlds without the headache of swapping the np435 into the rig.

well, id agree...except, if i had dual stock cases...i would never use just 1.
atleast i doubt i would

Isn't the rule of thumb that a torque convertor effectively doubles your 'crawl' ratio? So that 435 really wouldn't be that much different at slow speeds (except for compression braking of course).

It seems like you'd gain a lot more bang for your buck with duals and a good tranny cooler.

i dont know if its that much.
BUT, any reduction comes with MASSIVE heat. the trans gets VERY hot when im working it heavy.
ive got a large tranny cooler, meant for an RV.
u mentioned compression braking. yeh, this auto gives me some. if i downshift...going to fast, it'll throw u into the dash.

my first gear is 2.46:1. the 435 is 6.69:1 DIRECT drive.

again, if i had dual stock case, id run(i think) in low/low. as its NOT low enough as is now.
not having daul cases, or lower tcase gears, i dont KNOW for sure what id use.

im not trying to argue my case here. just trying point out my experiences..with what im using.

i really like the 5speed in my 4runner, offroad.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Putting more reduction in there will cool the trans beings the converter won't be "slipping" as much.

4.7 single or 5.1 with stock duals either one will do the trick but after having a 350/th350 in my old yota and a single case and 4.10's I don't knoI was always wishing I had a split as the stock low just wasn't low enough sometimes.

 

[nevada]

Putting more reduction in there will cool the trans beings the converter won't be "slipping" as much.

4.7 single or 5.1 with stock duals either one will do the trick but after having a 350/th350 in my old yota and a single case and 4.10's I don't knoI was always wishing I had a split as the stock low just wasn't low enough sometimes.

yeh it would, i agree.
BUT, I think if i had dual cases..i would WANT to be in low/low all the time. like you said, single low isnt low enough.

were you locked front/rear? i do find that makes a HUGE difference. if i was open, or only locked in the rear, i think what ive got would be plenty.
but, turning all 4 of those big tires, drags it down ALOT. especially when theyre bogged down in deep mud, or heavy wet snow.


hm, ok, how about this. dual cases, stock, in the front case, and 4.0 in the rear? give me a few more options.
then i could run stock low, 4:1, OR doubled up.
or should i just go straight to 4.7's(in the rear case)

altho, i think id still eventually want to swap in the 4spd. i likes me a shifter.

so many options..:eeek:

ok, so where is the best(cheapest) place to get a doubler kit, and some t-case gears?

edit: i WAS originally planning on dual cases. in fact, ive got several cases...just waiting for such an occasion...

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Yes my old truck was locked up. I was on 38" sx's most of the time but at the end it was on 39.5" tsl's.. I probably had a bit more engine than you have though.... I grew up around my brothers with street rods so when I built the 84 it was retarded.... :redneck:


If your going to do duals with a V8 you'd be silly to go with anything but Marlins stuff... The MC-07R10 doubler is on sale right now for just over $300.. Same with the 4.7's, get the doubler in 23 spline and use the total spline 4.7's and it'll be bullet proof.

 

[nevada]

its been awhile since i researched any of this, and ive forgotten alot.

in order to run the 23 splines, i would have to get the input shaft also. since im running a 4cyl 21 spline case now. so add another $100 to the total. :frown:

i havent broken any input shafts yet...but i KNOW its just waiting to happen. right now i use my birfs as a "fuse
yeh, those are next...and the list goes on.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

There is a turbo case for sale here on NWW... :;

 

[nevada]

There is a turbo case for sale here on NWW... :;

yeh, i seen that. its too much.
the only difference AFAIK is the input shaft. i can get a new 23 spline for about $100. i dont need the case.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

My thought on that case is you can buy it and sell one of yours for the same to replace it.. Sheesh, just thinking of the wallet.

 

[nevada]

My thought on that case is you can buy it and sell one of yours for the same to replace it.. Sheesh, just thinking of the wallet.

yeh..good idea.

problem with that. i dont like to sell my stuff. "ya never know" a wheeling buddy or whatever might need one. and i could help get them (back)on the trail.
so, id buy his case, and STILL have all of mine...until..ya know, JUST in case.

i really do have ALOT of "crap" i could sell...

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Good God I didn't realize the dude wanted $200 for it... Yea, I'd get the 23 spline "total spline" input from Marlin... It's on sale now too.... Damnit, I can spend your money like a woman.... :haha:

 

[nevada]

Good God I didn't realize the dude wanted $200 for it... Yea, I'd get the 23 spline "total spline" input from Marlin... It's on sale now too.... Damnit, I can spend your money like a woman.... :haha:

yep, thats what i was saying.

ok, i AM sorta still unclear on the duals.
i know i need ATLEAST the 1 23 spline input shaft, for the front case. does it need one for the second case also? or is that gear/gear only?

havent seen how they go together, or i dont remember, its been a few yrs since i checked into this.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

You have a 23 spline adapter for the C4? I figured you had a 21 spline...

Either way just use your current case for the range box and swap the 4.7's in the rear. The adapter is built for either 21 or 23 spline so you'd have to decide on gearing the second case right away or finding a 23 spline input for 2.28 gears.

Honestly I REALLY doubt you'd have it in double low enough to talk about so you'd have 4.7 or 2.28 to use. I run most trails with the rear case in 4.7 and the trans in second or 3rd and I'm on 42's with 5.29's and a monster HP 22re...

 

[nevada]

You have a 23 spline adapter for the C4? I figured you had a 21 spline...

Either way just use your current case for the range box and swap the 4.7's in the rear. The adapter is built for either 21 or 23 spline so you'd have to decide on gearing the second case right away or finding a 23 spline input for 2.28 gears.

Honestly I REALLY doubt you'd have it in double low enough to talk about so you'd have 4.7 or 2.28 to use. I run most trails with the rear case in 4.7 and the trans in second or 3rd and I'm on 42's with 5.29's and a monster HP 22re...

yeh, i do have a 21 spline.
i think im a bit confused.

ok, so if i did what u said, i wouldnt be using the 21 spline shaft im running now?
ok..if i did that, id have to get the 23 spline COUPLER(what i was thinking of earlier, when i said input shaft), to adapt to the C4.

yeh, but when ur in 2nd/4.7, and with 5.29 ur (53:1)

right now, when im in 1st/2.28, with 5.29, im only 29:1 double low (2.28/2.28) would only put me at (67:1) so even with ur bigger tires, ur alot lower in 2nd, than i would be in first.
if i had dual 2.28's, im sure id be running in double low always..*see edit below*




if i go through with this, ive got to run the 4.7's in the rear case.

ok, so im clear on this, id need the 23 spline coupler, for the c4/t-case adapter. and the all-spline 4.7 kit.

so the 21/23 input shaft is ONLY used in the front case, when doing duals? is that right?

**i RE-read ur post**
ah, i thought we were still talking about dual stock case.:eeek: disregard the above. yes, 2.28/4.7 would be PLENTY. (139:1)


until i swap in the np435:redneck: (379:1)
hell, then i could run welded 4:10's and sell my spooled 5.29's:haha:

thanks for your help so far.

 

[nevada]

ok, after some calculations, and pricing things out. i think my best option is gonna be to throw the np435 in. the adapter is about $550, plus id need a 23 pline input gear, for another $150 or so.
i'll rebuild the 4speed, before it goes in, anther $150, im guessing, i havent looked that up yet.
so $850 would get me 80:1, over 2.5 times where im at now.

the dual cases with 2.28's/4.7's would put me over $1k. and id STILL have the slushbox.

sadly, im not able to do this, until probably feburary at the earliest.
but, if all goes right, there will be a newly rebuilt ford C4, with toyota t-case adapter for sale this spring.

so...where the best place to get the rebuild kit for the 435?

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Hmmm I may be in the market for one of those diffs when the time comes...



One thing to remember is the slush box will effectively bouble the ratio but I do agree with ya on using the 435.... I like rowing my own gears too.

Oh, here's your rebuild kit... http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/np435_parts.htm

 

[nevada]

Hmmm I may be in the market for one of those diffs when the time comes...



One thing to remember is the slush box will effectively bouble the ratio but I do agree with ya on using the 435.... I like rowing my own gears too.

Oh, here's your rebuild kit... http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/np435_parts.htm

i really doubt id EVER need it to be THAT friggin low tho.

and as far as the auto doubling the ratio...i dono about that. my 4unner(5.29's also) is WAY lower geared(47:1+?) than the truck.

theres some reduction with the auto, but if it was double, id be OK, as is.
plus, ANY reduction comes with added heat, and engine rpms. which also creates more heat.

cool, thanks. thats where i was looking. wasnt sure if there was a better place to get it.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

The heat level is reduced when you have reduction AFTER the auto.... using the converter to lower the ratio by using a higher stall converter or by dropping the idle to fool the converter into slipping both cause massive amounts of heat. Put any other kind of reduction behind the trans and holy shiat will it be lower... And the trans will run much cooler tool. But enough of that, your putting a stick in it.


You going with a hydro clutch or mechanical? May I suggest going hydro with a yota master cylinder and a universal slave from speedwaymotors.com.. They carry both push and pull cylinders for cheap.