ORV Leadership

[dirtygoat]

Here is what I believe he was talking about.
What was the specific RCW?

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...WvowvRjg_3d_3d

Something is wrong with your link...

 

[nate8887]

Got to the link on the page before.

 

[crash2]

Thats a BS excuse to not allow you to have difficult trails at reiter.

We have difficult trails on DNR land. Lots of them. At Elbe we have the Busywild, Ranier vista, and a new difficult cut on the swamp trail.

Tahuya was super easy till folks like Ted and Joop got them to give the OK for a few good rock hillclimbs that could be a liability but have a challenge aswell.

At elbe we also have a VERY ACTIVE DNR REP That I have seen on the trail more than I have ever seen all the "super active heros" on the same trails.
Folks like gibby and the DP crew get more respect from me, They are out on the trail and meetings.
My hat is off to Nancy for here support and for working with the wheelers any way she can.

My firm belief is the buck is always going to get passed at reiter. They (DNR) dont want folks there. And will use any scapegoat to blame it on to keep you guys civil about it.

They could work with you guys IF they WANT to.

As I see it--your verison of whats difficult and others may be mis interpeted. The busy wild and any other trail at Elbe is not hard. Plus where are the steep ledges, drop offs and extreem off cambler sections? I don't recall anything of that nature out there. What you describe pretty much falls into the DNR's realm. Also at elbe I don't recal the extreem terain that we have at reiter. Lots of steep hills, lots of steep rock and so on.

In your eyes ELBE may be hard but in the DNR's eyes I am willing to bet it doesn't fall into anything close to "dangerouse".

You honestly cannot compare ORV area to ORV area because with each the terain is different.

Another example (granted this is forest service but I am pretty sure the safety standards are the same). I have been over 95% of everything over in manashtash/nachies and there is not a single hard trail. the only hard trail in exhistance over there was the 601. That was closed off a few years before I started wheeling over there and if you walked it that was a HARD trail.

Again terain dictates alot..

 

[nate8887]

Rim Rock?

 

[crash2]

Rim Rock?

Never been to rimrock.

I have always considered rim rock on its own.

 

[Duck Dodgers]

I'm going to promote Duck Dodgers as "a guy". If you wheel Walker or anywhere up north.......pick Duck Dodgers as "your guy". PM him and ask him how you can help him.

And if you'd like, post here in this thread......show your "up north" wheeling buddies you have "a guy". You'll be surprised how big a snowball a few helpers can make......GET "THIS GUY" SOME MORE HELP!

I commend you Ducky.....on your past, present and furture efforts.:awesomework:

Thanks but I work for Rum in the winter and Tequila in the summer.... oh wait Both are fine anytime..

Oh and thanks for promoting me to " A Guy" ... what the hell was I before?:fawkdancesmiley:STFU PUO

 

[Binder]

Rimrock has nothing on par with Reiter as far as difficulty is concerned nor does Elbey...That RCW I posted here months ago, now has anyone actually read it? It prety much says in not so many words that natural terrain is the users choice to use it or not but the land owner isn't liable for injuries...Falling off of crappy bridges or such man made objects is the problem where they can get sued.

 

[nate8887]

Thats what I thought I remembered reading But I couldnt find it it talked heavily on rock climbing.

So what are the crazy dangerous trails at reiter besides the outlet???

 

[Binder]

So what are the crazy dangerous trails at reiter besides the outlet???

The OM is a one of a kind trail that is "world class" IMHO as far as difficulty. As far as the rest of Reiter there are no trails quite like that but there are sections of trail and specific obstacles here and there that we don't typically see at most other ORV areas. That's been one of the big concers from many users with the DNR taking a more active roll in Reiter is these Reiter obstacles will go away. We're starting to see that happen now...Walker valley has a couple OK obstakles mixed in but for the most part it's just tame trails...

 

[Gibby1]

Elbe has a number of difficult trails but very few dangerous sections. The biggest danger is typically a flop on the side or not being able to get your rig out.

You would have to TRY to do something dangerous an Elbe.

The busy in the winter, will stop just about anyone a couple of times.

Evan's Creek has more dangerous sections where a slip can mean a roll down an embankement and serious injury.

The OM is for a elite few. I understand their concerns about liability, it's reality. Doesn't matter who's FAULT it is, some jerk is going to sue and can win. Welcome to the American way. Some guy get's hurt and some ambulance chasing attorney is going to find a way to sue to get some money. That kills it for everyone. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it has happened and it will happen again.

You could even post signage, try to limit access to users that are pre-approved and have everyone sign waivers. Someone will go on the trail without permission, hurt themselves and sue. Exactly the reason why so many private landowners won't open their land up to ORV use. I have a small farm and we've built some trails and obstacles - almost put my runner on it's lid last time on the rock pile, and I worry not only when I bring friends out but when I see tracks of some jerk that's trespassed on my property with his quad to play on my big boy trail. I have to physically block off my property to prevent people from illegally using it so that I don't get sued if someone gets hurt. The litigous nature of our society kills the fun for all of us.

 

[Big_MARK]

Ahhh the old "What have you done for Me lately?" thread.

I continue to do what I can when I can , it's just that lately I don't give a **** so I haven't done ****.


At least I'm honest.

 

[unclestripey]

Elbe has a number of difficult trails but very few dangerous sections. The biggest danger is typically a flop on the side or not being able to get your rig out.

You would have to TRY to do something dangerous an Elbe.

The busy in the winter, will stop just about anyone a couple of times.

Evan's Creek has more dangerous sections where a slip can mean a roll down an embankement and serious injury.

The OM is for a elite few. I understand their concerns about liability, it's reality. Doesn't matter who's FAULT it is, some jerk is going to sue and can win. Welcome to the American way. Some guy get's hurt and some ambulance chasing attorney is going to find a way to sue to get some money. That kills it for everyone. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it has happened and it will happen again.

You could even post signage, try to limit access to users that are pre-approved and have everyone sign waivers. Someone will go on the trail without permission, hurt themselves and sue. Exactly the reason why so many private landowners won't open their land up to ORV use. I have a small farm and we've built some trails and obstacles - almost put my runner on it's lid last time on the rock pile, and I worry not only when I bring friends out but when I see tracks of some jerk that's trespassed on my property with his quad to play on my big boy trail. I have to physically block off my property to prevent people from illegally using it so that I don't get sued if someone gets hurt. The litigous nature of our society kills the fun for all of us.

The DNR needs to be guaranteed "Recreational Immunity", there is a push on now to have the law rewritten so they're "bulletproof. I believe that the DNR hasn't yet lost a suit, but has settled out of court for a pretty penny because the chances of a jury deciding for a family man in a wheelchair are high.

 

[zukkev]

The DNR needs to be guaranteed "Recreational Immunity", there is a push on now to have the law rewritten so they're "bulletproof. I believe that the DNR hasn't yet lost a suit, but has settled out of court for a pretty penny because the chances of a jury deciding for a family man in a wheelchair are high.

If the recreational Immunity law is re-written, it will also protect the private landowner...And there hasn't been a suit lost, but a few settlements have been made... Man, oh man if this can be rewritten it could potentially open up a whole new realm of opportunities for us!!!

 

[unclestripey]

Fingers, toes, arms, legs and nuts crossed.:redneck:

 

[zukkev]

I wish I knew more about law writing proposal type stuff!!!:redneck: We need to get the ball rolling somehow, someway!!! :awesomework:
EDIT: Nuts?????????????:yikes: TMI dude, TMI!!!

 

[crash2]

Elbe has a number of difficult trails but very few dangerous sections. The biggest danger is typically a flop on the side or not being able to get your rig out.

You would have to TRY to do something dangerous an Elbe.

The busy in the winter, will stop just about anyone a couple of times.

Evan's Creek has more dangerous sections where a slip can mean a roll down an embankement and serious injury.

The OM is for a elite few. I understand their concerns about liability, it's reality. Doesn't matter who's FAULT it is, some jerk is going to sue and can win. Welcome to the American way. Some guy get's hurt and some ambulance chasing attorney is going to find a way to sue to get some money. That kills it for everyone. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it has happened and it will happen again.

You could even post signage, try to limit access to users that are pre-approved and have everyone sign waivers. Someone will go on the trail without permission, hurt themselves and sue. Exactly the reason why so many private landowners won't open their land up to ORV use. I have a small farm and we've built some trails and obstacles - almost put my runner on it's lid last time on the rock pile, and I worry not only when I bring friends out but when I see tracks of some jerk that's trespassed on my property with his quad to play on my big boy trail. I have to physically block off my property to prevent people from illegally using it so that I don't get sued if someone gets hurt. The litigous nature of our society kills the fun for all of us.

For the record I wasn't trying to say in any way Elbe is lame or boring--just trying to state from my prospective comparing reiter to Elbe.

 

[nate8887]

Evans has a lot of OOOOPs now your down a cliff 100's of feet. and people have had bad experiances with this numerous of times just when we were hosting last weekend a guy made a mistake and ended up off a embenkment with his 4 year old. and as far as I can remember back no one has ever been sued as far as national forest service goes.

 

[Corey Y]

For the record I wasn't trying to say in any way Elbe is lame or boring--just trying to state from my prospective comparing reiter to Elbe.

I will say it, Elbe is lame compared to Reiter. Volunteers are slowly making it better. If the DNR changes some regulations and gets more income for ORV areas, it will be better, sooner. With lots of help from area users.

 

[Clark]

So who's "my guy" down here?:corn:

 

[nate8887]

I will say it, Elbe is lame compared to Reiter. Volunteers are slowly making it better. If the DNR changes some regulations and gets more income for ORV areas, it will be better, sooner. With lots of help from area users.

Read above for your sothern guy.