RCV Big Bells in 05+ F250/350 outers

[TBItoy]

I'm honestly not sure how removal would go. I had an issue with my stubs (long story) and they had to go back to RCV. They told me and I **** you not, "you may not be able to separate the inner from the CV." I was like you're kidding. They said give it a go but if you can't don't keep beating on them, just send the whole assembly back. We beat the **** out of them and they never let go so I sent it all back. I guess that 40 spline split ring is really aggressive. IDK.

All I'd be worried about is getting the boot off the CV. The rest can slide out the knuckle.

But, yeah I could see that. Does it just have one snap ring in the center of the splines?

On the Toyota RCVs you had to find a piece of pipe that inner shaft would fit in, and would only hit the inner splined CV race, then slam it down on a piece of wood so the inner would pop out of the CV.

 

[Bebop]

nah, just make a puller with some stand offs (like a steering wheel puller) and pull the stub out with the threaded hole. The knuckle bore will catch the boot.

Not a bad idea, thanks !

On the Toyota RCVs you had to find a piece of pipe that inner shaft would fit in, and would only hit the inner splined CV race, then slam it down on a piece of wood so the inner would pop out of the CV.

Yep, that's how I do it usually.
That's also how I put the boot on a regular Dana60 CV.

 

[The-Boss]

:dblthumb: for a solid tech thread.

 

[redneckengineered]

All I'd be worried about is getting the boot off the CV. The rest can slide out the knuckle.

But, yeah I could see that. Does it just have one snap ring in the center of the splines?

On the Toyota RCVs you had to find a piece of pipe that inner shaft would fit in, and would only hit the inner splined CV race, then slam it down on a piece of wood so the inner would pop out of the CV.

Yep same concept I guess just everything is bigger, groove is deeper making the seat all that more difficult to separate.

 

[jeeptj99]

One trick we did is put a set of finger clamps and clamp on the end of the bell after the stub was removed and using the finger clamps holding the bell out against the knuckle, stick something through the bell (we have a solid piece of aluminum about 12" long) through and beating the **** out it with a hammer. Hopefully I explained it so it makes sense. It works really well on a 44 not sure if the 60's and all that the clamps are to small but it works amazing on 44's.

 

[tonybolton]

Im sure most will agree i have no business in this thread....

I'll drop my half cent on orange boot installation. I've done a few...not many and have had good luck with hot/warm boot and a super tiny long pick or flat head.

Shove this in whichever access area you have and in between the bell and boot.

This relieves the air tightness/pressure created when the boot meets the bell.

Still not easy...but you're fighting 1 less variable now.

 

[smbroady82]

Makes sense. Option 3 just get the Reid Super Kingpins and say **** it :****:

https://reidracing.biz/products/super-kingpin-knuckles/

that's really not bad at all, not much more that I paid for my Solid Keyed Knuckles for my little 35 spline HP 60 stuff :dunno:

 

[Bebop]

Don't forget you have to add all the C's, KP hardware, the high steer arms, brand new UBs, brand new brakes etc...

Very expensive very quick VS salvaging parts from a complete $500 axle and selling the stock shafts for $100.

And the solid PAIR is $430. The price tag in your link is for ONE knuckle ;)

 

[smbroady82]

Don't forget you have to add all the C's, KP hardware, the high steer arms, brand new UBs, brand new brakes etc...

Very expensive very quick VS salvaging parts from a complete $500 axle and selling the stock shafts for $100.

And the solid PAIR is $430. The price tag in your link is for ONE knuckle ;)

Touché sir

 

[sleepsontoilet]

Thanks for the tech. I hope the stock 1550s will hold for a little while, but want to know there is a potential upgrade for once I get comfortable with the new rig. I ruined a 300m Branik inner shaft on my portal car a lot easier than I would have ever thought, due to a bad measurement on MY part. I accounted for a center pin that my locker didn't have when ordering shafts, and Jesse told me not to run the retaining clip. The shaft slid in 1.125" and ruined the splines for a costly no warranty repair. Stan did give me a hefty discount on the new one, a free pair of UMHW spacers to take up the gap vs buying 4 new shafts, and expedited making the new shaft. While he does not have an implied warranty, Stan did all he could to make it not so bad for a mistake that wasn't theirs. RCV warrantied the star I didn't even buy from them for free and overnighted the parts. I am very happy with the service I received from them. There is also Overson as an option, but they don't offer any warranty on a 4k shaft either.

I'm running the Nick Barna BJ eliminators on all stock parts to save money. I would love the big knuckle kits, but it's not in the budget to have an unlimited budget buggy anymore. I'm interested to see what changes Nick has to make to fit these as I've already welded his inserts and Jesse's steering on my knuckles. Worst case if I need the upgrade, I'll just have to grab another set from the junkyard and grab his newer kit.

 

[Bebop]

Nick told me he would only change the inserts and bolt, which make sense to me.

I'm more excited about the lower kit TBH ;D

Really good things to hear about Stan. I have one of his sway bars for my buggy.

I'm also excited to see some progress on your buggy man, I'm really curious about the stock 1550 stuff.

Other option would be to buy some Dana Chromoly 1550 shafts and have them re-cut to whatever length you want. Probably cheaper than Big Bells or Violator. But no warranty either.

 

[sleepsontoilet]

Nick told me he would only change the inserts and bolt, which make sense to me.

I'm more excited about the lower kit TBH ;D

Really good things to hear about Stan. I have one of his sway bars for my buggy.

I'm also excited to see some progress on your buggy man, I'm really curious about the stock 1550 stuff.

Other option would be to buy some Dana Chromoly 1550 shafts and have them re-cut to whatever length you want. Probably cheaper than Big Bells or Violator. But no warranty either.

I built the housings to accept stock length shafts, so hopefully I'll never have down time again. I have a really good price guy at a local junkyard that keeps SD stuff in droves. I can run and grab some spare shafts and unit bearings before a big trip for a couple hundred and not miss a trip. Much better than a one off shaft that may take weeks to months to get replaced in prime wheeling season. Got some more goodies from Chris Roes in tonight, so hopefully it's a roller in the next week or so.

 

[Bebop]

Much better option if stock shafts hold up. Would get old real quick if you break them first time to touch rear steer.

Not that I wish you to break all the time but I'm not taking the risk.

 

[94xjsport94]

Nice thread, I read this last night at work but got caught up and couldn't respond.

I just installed my upper BJE kit on friday and was surprised with how nice and easy it really was. I'm running just normal 1480 bell 4340 RCV shafts in mine and found it kind of a pain in the ass to put everything back together though. I left my UB/ stub/ flange/ and all together when I removed the knuckle to weld in the bung for the BJE, so maybe I just had too much weight to try and move around while trying to line up the inner shaft/ CV/ UB in the knuckle/ and get everything to slide together. I can only imagine it being a bigger PITA with the big bell.

My question is do you think there is a need for the big bell in the 250/350 knuckle other than say using the C's and knuckles on a new housing swap? You dont think 300m shafts in a 1480 cv would hold up to 99% of wheelers out there? I didn't look into the prices of the big bell stuff when I bought mine last year and didn't really think I had the basis to ask to try it out seeing as how I don't have the big woopow driveline or driving style others do. I asked Ricky if they would fit in my knuckles and I believe he didn't know at the time if they would or not. I went RCV over Branik, spidertrax, or ouverson because of price and warranty. I just wasnt looking to drop 3k on ouverson/ branik direct drive 1550 shafts, that I'm sure I would never break, with no warranty. I'm happy with what I paid for my RCV's and how they have held up this past year. I was torn between the stock 1550 shafts and joints over RCV's for a while. My friend Tyler in FL has broken two 1550 stubs where they neck down to go into the UB with a knocking 4.8 and 40" treps. Joints were fine but he broke the stub shaft and has bent several upper BJ's by jumping his. I never broke the BJ's in mine, but they did pop apart while I was in Moab in 2016.

My only beef with the RCV shafts is that you can't access their grease fitting in the cv with how the 05+ knuckle is made. I guess you just have to bend the needle fitting to fit under the boot and shoot new grease in it that way? I repacked mine up with new grease when they were apart this weekend.

I feel pretty confident my 60 will hold up to my new drive line and driving style. Guess the RG is my new weak point. 05+ housing, TMR truss, 5.38's, spool, 4340 RCV's, BJE kit, ECGS flanges, and stock UB/ brakes.

Do ya'll think there is a demand or interest in a small brake kit still? I've been working on a few things and think i have the rear kinda figured out using the stock 10.5 rotor and chevy 1/2 ton brakes but I'm still looking at rotors for the front since i'm 8x6.5 that will work with chevy 1/2 ton brakes. Have a few things I want to try in the next few months before I yank my drivetrain out.

Are all the 05+ RCV stubs/ CV's 300m? Someone told me they were but I don't know for certain.

 

[al1tonyota]

Great post! I’m building my axle finally I’m sure I will swap to the eliminators if I have a problem with mine...

 

[Bebop]

My question is do you think there is a need for the big bell in the 250/350 knuckle other than say using the C's and knuckles on a new housing swap? You dont think 300m shafts in a 1480 cv would hold up to 99% of wheelers out there?

I don't think it's necessary. Andrew (Redneck engineering) proved that the 300M Dana60 sized stuff is stronger than the pinion of the HP60 gears. If you keep a HP60 center section I don't think the big bells make sense.

In my case I'm looking into a rear steer application with big HP and dumb driver. 14 bolt center section, 40sp shafts and Big Bells are a requirement.

Do ya'll think there is a demand or interest in a small brake kit still? I've been working on a few things and think i have the rear kinda figured out using the stock 10.5 rotor and chevy 1/2 ton brakes but I'm still looking at rotors for the front since i'm 8x6.5 that will work with chevy 1/2 ton brakes. Have a few things I want to try in the next few months before I yank my drivetrain out.

I'd say there is a demand for a fairly inexpensive kit if you compare it to stock ****.

I need to make my idea a reality but I have an idea for a small brake kit for 8x170 pattern using Yota/Wilwood calipers. I gave the idea to a machinist that made it happen but I don't have pics ::)

Are all the 05+ RCV stubs/ CV's 300m? Someone told me they were but I don't know for certain.

IDK but I'll ask RCV tomorrow and report back.

 

[Bebop]

Great post! I’m building my axle finally I’m sure I will swap to the eliminators if I have a problem with mine...

Nice !

Could you check for us what does the bore in the knuckle look like ? Do they have the stock lip or is it a straight hole ? If yes, what's the ID ?

 

[mrdrinksalil]

I’m glad someone is working on this! I’ve been trying to figure it out for a while now. The issue it the boot. I wonder if RCV could easily make a thinner boot? I don’t see enough material in the knuckle to machine it so the boot assembly will slide through. I’m also skeptical of boring it out as isn’t the machined bore of the knuckle supporting the load on the unit bearing? If you bore it then the load is on the studs.

Here’s a few pics I’ve been saving.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[al1tonyota]

They still have the same id as stock including where the shaft seal goes.

 

[Bebop]

I’m glad someone is working on this! I’ve been trying to figure it out for a while now. The issue it the boot. I wonder if RCV could easily make a thinner boot? I don’t see enough material in the knuckle to machine it so the boot assembly will slide through. I’m also skeptical of boring it out as isn’t the machined bore of the knuckle supporting the load on the unit bearing? If you bore it then the load is on the studs.

Here’s a few pics I’ve been saving.

I'm not gonna speak for RCV but I don't think they will make a thinner boot.

No way to slide the boot through the bore. And no need too.

Just do as we said here :

He was planning to install the knuckle, put the orange booth in the knuckle then slide the shaft+CV assy through the knuckle bore, pop the boot in then install the UB.

As for the machining, ideally the bell would slide without touching the ID that centers the UB in the knuckle. Just removing the inner lip that is used for the stock seal. So no worries there.

Thanks for the pics man !

Do you have the 450/550 Big Bells ? They are smaller than the Reid Super KP Big Bells.
Oh yeah, I just learned that there is 2 different sizes of Big Bells ! How confusing !
The orange dome of the Reid ones measures right at 5" 3/4

They still have the same id as stock including where the shaft seal goes.

Good to know, thanks !

 

[94xjsport94]

I don't think it's necessary. Andrew (Redneck engineering) proved that the 300M Dana60 sized stuff is stronger than the pinion of the HP60 gears. If you keep a HP60 center section I don't think the big bells make sense.

In my case I'm looking into a rear steer application with big HP and dumb driver. 14 bolt center section, 40sp shafts and Big Bells are a requirement.

I'd say there is a demand for a fairly inexpensive kit if you compare it to stock ****.

I need to make my idea a reality but I have an idea for a small brake kit for 8x170 pattern using Yota/Wilwood calipers. I gave the idea to a machinist that made it happen but I don't have pics ::)

IDK but I'll ask RCV tomorrow and report back.

Gotcha. What I'm looking at making uses an off the shelf rotor- cheaper than a 05+ rotor (I have one that works for 8x6.5 and one that should work for 8x170), a chevy 1/2 ton caliper, and a new caliper bracket off of the stock knuckle. Of course MC and booster/ hydroboost stuff comes into play but I think it should improve my braking for sure. I have the stock 1994 XJ booster, Dodge 2500 truck MC, and stock 05+ brakes. I think my set up works and works well for what it is, but I think there is a lot of room for improvement. Not a lot of weight would be shed but it would be a better set up for a rig, imo. Keep me updated about the stubs please.

 

[Sawzall]

I don't think it's necessary. Andrew (Redneck engineering) proved that the 300M Dana60 sized stuff is stronger than the pinion of the HP60 gears. If you keep a HP60 center section I don't think the big bells make sense.

Currie high pinion 35 spline D70 gears could be fitted in the HP60 case. I would have to swap to a driver drop TC to run a 14 bolt due to the pinion offset.

 

[Bebop]

Seen many rigs run a pass drop 14 bolt. While not ideal it can be done. That's also how I plan to do mine when it's time.

I'd love it for you to try the Jana76 and a HP70 Currie gearset and report back if they are stronger than regular RCVs. Would be a badass test :smoke:

 

[Sawzall]

I destroyed the LP60 gears on my first ride. My LP Jana76 with a load bolt, Yukon axles and Super Joints have held up without fail since 2013. I think that the one piece drive shaft helps since the u-joint angle is less severe and doesn't put as much stress on the pinion. Less agressive driving style probably makes the most difference.

 

[TBItoy]

2 different sized “Big Bells”?

Specs? Application?

Any more info?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlatlandFSJ]

2 different sized “Big Bells”?

Specs? Application?

Any more info?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm curious bout this to...I know there was some differences in the spacing of the 550 knuckles to the reid knuckles, but I didn't think they changed the size of the bell.

 

[redneckengineered]

2 different sized “Big Bells”?

Specs? Application?

Any more info?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not that I know of. The big bells are all the same. Only difference is in the stub. One part # is for the Reid Super Kingpins, the other is for 450/550. Only difference is the Reid stub is about 1/2" shorter. That's it.

 

[TBItoy]

Not that I know of. The big bells are all the same. Only difference is in the stub. One part # is for the Reid Super Kingpins, the other is for 450/550. Only difference is the Reid stub is about 1/2" shorter. That's it.

Ok that makes more sense, already knew that.

I took size = diameter.


Did you end up getting new or modified stubs? since they sent you 450/550 stubs initially.

 

[kmcminn]

Not that I know of. The big bells are all the same. Only difference is in the stub. One part # is for the Reid Super Kingpins, the other is for 450/550. Only difference is the Reid stub is about 1/2" shorter. That's it.

From what I was told me the are 2 different size big bell outside diameters. Big is 5.467 small is 5.337

 

[FlatlandFSJ]

From what I was told me the are 2 different size big bell outside diameters. Big is 5.467 small is 5.337

A "small" big bell should fit through the seal area, it's 5.347. That combined with the shorter stub for the reid stuff should make for a plug and play stub in the f250/350 knuckle right?

*edit...I wonder if the stub for the reid knuckles is the "small" big bell, those knuckles have the lip for the seal in them do they not?