some state laws and wheeling

[japerry]

***Full disclosure: I'm NOT a lawyer. These laws are my interpretation, please interpret at your own discretion and debate me if you think I'm wrong on my interpretation!***

Started doing some digging around for those on the forum who like to wheel where they shouldn't... and wanted to point out some relevant state laws:

a) trespass law.
Usually, you'd be cited for a misdemeanor, second degree trespass as defined here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.080
A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree.

However, you have to define 'enters or remains unlawfully' for this statue to stick. Thats where 9A.52.010 comes in...
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010
A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.

Important: Do not chop or damage trees!
IF you're caught damaging or harvesting trees, you can be assessed treble amount of its production worth! This applies to public AND private land.

Trespassing on State Land:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52-400
Where are motorized and nonmotorized vehicles permitted off of a road or trail? Persons shall only operate motorized or nonmotorized vehicles off of a road or trail on lands posted or otherwise designated by the department as open for the designated recreational use. All other off-road or off-trail vehicular use is prohibited.
Any violation of this section is an infraction under chapter 7.84 RCW. Key point about 7.84RCW. This is an INFRACTION. This means you cannot receive a ticket over $500, you should not have your vehicle impounded (unless you have another infraction like suspended license), etc.

It'd seem that private land owners would wanna work with us. Otherwise rouge 4x4s can just tear up stuff and they have little recourse... that is unless they catch us actually ruining harvest-able timber, which is another story on its own. Also, as per 43.12.065 -- DNR officers cannot enforce laws on private land.

What I'm encouraging is that we, the wheeling community, TALK AND NEGOTIATE with private land owners. They have a problem: WHEELERS. We have a solution! manage their 'illegal' trails.

The problem with DNR is that they have the letter of the law behind them, making it very easy to close land and enforce it. Private timber companies have it the other way. Therefore, they might have more of an incentive to work with us to reduce damage to their timber

PS. Rieter has been technically illegal from state law point of view since a change in WACs made only designated trails legal. However political pressure kept DNR from enforcing the law.

:awesomework:

 

[dirtygoat]

Interesting...

But, I don't think that you should be posting a "how-to" clinic on wheeling private land without getting in trouble...

I think this is irresponsible posting...

 

[stealthrunner1]

:awesomework: Nice points Jacob:awesomework:

 

[nowires]

Nice :looser:

 

[Totalled]

Having worked securtiy for weyco vail I'll let you know not to try it on weyco land. I caught someone who got stuck trying to go around the gate, and the supervisor called a wrecker to pull the vehicle out. Then the person had to pay the wrecker to get thier rig back.

 

[Binder]

Interesting...

But, I don't think that you should be posting a "how-to" clinic on wheeling private land without getting in trouble...

I think this is irresponsible posting...

I understand what you're saying but at the same time I think it's a good idea for us to stay informed.:;

 

[Ty.]

Thanks for the info. Knowledge is power.

 

[japerry]

I understand what you're saying but at the same time I think it's a good idea for us to stay informed.:;

exactly. No one should be wheeling on private land without permission.

However....

There has been some mis-information spread around on this forum and others about what 'happens' if you get caught on different land areas. I think its important to know your rights in regards to the law.

If you're stopped by an LEO or private security firm on private land, the worst you can be told is to leave, or if its DNR, you get a ticket. YOUR VEHICLE SHOULD NOT BE TOWED, YOU SHOULD NOT GOTO JAIL*

I'm posting this not to encourage people to go break the law, but to inform people what will happen to them if they decide to break the law/trespass.

 

[quartz]

Basically: on DNR land if you're caught on trail, in an area posted illegal (or not posted at all), you'll have an uphill battle fighting the ticket.
Otherwise: on private land, if you're caught on trail, in an area not posted at all, they'll have an uphill battle charging you with trespass. In fact, the sheriff won't even come out unless you come back over and over again and the dept has complaints specifically about you.

Is this an actual post? I can't believe someone would actually put this down in ink. Could you give me your address, I will be up later to wheel your front yard. Don't worry it's ok, its private land right! Whether it's somebodys front yard or someone else's 500 acres stay off of it.

Do us all a favor and delete your post. It's great ammo for anyone against wheeling

 

[LarryS]

good info to know.

 

[japerry]

Is this an actual post? I can't believe someone would actually put this down in ink. Could you give me your address, I will be up later to wheel your front yard. Don't worry it's ok, its private land right! Whether it's somebodys front yard or someone else's 500 acres stay off of it.

Do us all a favor and delete your post. It's great ammo for anyone against wheeling

ahh fascism. its great eh? Lets just hide the facts from our fellow people and keep them unformed eh? :looser:

Anywho you missed the point, let me make it a little clearer:

What I'm encouraging is that we, the wheeling community, TALK AND NEGOTIATE with private land owners. They have a problem: WHEELERS. We have a solution! manage their 'illegal' trails.

The problem with DNR is that they have the letter of the law behind them, making it very easy to close land and enforce it. Private timber companies have it the other way. Therefore, they might have more of an incentive to work with us to reduce damage to their timber.

 

[crash2]

If you're stopped by an LEO or private security firm on private land, the worst you can be told is to leave, or if its DNR, you get a ticket. YOUR VEHICLE WILL NOT BE TOWED, YOU WILL NOT GOTO JAIL*

I call BS.

 

[japerry]

I call BS.

Citation needed

PS. you could get impounded if you're cited for something else, like suspended license, DUI, etc. Or if you end up being a :looser: and getting stuck on private land and need to get towed out. But not based solely off of running trail.

Also, if you go around a gate and its proven you went around a gate, you could get charged with second degree trespass.

 

[crash2]

Personally I think this thread is bad information and here is why from my prospective. I do not wheel on private land unless its stated "ok" or have direct permision from the Land owner. When I am not on private land I too follow the rules and respect the land I use.

From my prospective the first post gives more ammo to those who "DO NOT" play by the rules or should I say all the ammo.

Kinda like those instructions on the net for "how to build a bomb" or so on.

Its a slippery slope.....

 

[japerry]

its too bad this bill didn't pass...
http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=0&X=503092203&p=1

 

[japerry]

Personally I think this thread is bad information and here is why from my prospective. I do not wheel on private land unless its stated "ok" or have direct permision from the Land owner. When I am not on private land I too follow the rules and respect the land I use.

From my prospective the first post gives more ammo to those who "DO NOT" play by the rules or should I say all the ammo.

Kinda like those instructions on the net for "how to build a bomb" or so on.

Its a slippery slope.....

I guess I disagree, finding it more like informing people what their rights are. Similar to police stops, random checkpoints, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&NR=1

 

[Binder]

YOUR VEHICLE WILL NOT BE TOWED, YOU WILL NOT GOTO JAIL*

I would not go as far as saying this. Your vehicle SHOULD not be towed and you SHOULD not go to jail. Mistakes are made all of the time. Improper impound happens and improper arrests happen. You would however have a strong defence for what you did.....This is one of those cases of a law that needs to be changed. Hiding your head in the sand isn't going to make it better. If enough people find out about the change that's needed then maybe it will happen.:awesomework:

 

[boardbysled]

I have nothing to add other than If you are damaging timber while doing this wheeling on private land, I believe they could confiscate your vehicle then.

 

[japerry]

I would not go as far as saying this. Your vehicle SHOULD not be towed and you SHOULD not go to jail. Mistakes are made all of the time. Improper impound happens and improper arrests happen. You would however have a strong defence for what you did.....This is one of those cases of a law that needs to be changed. Hiding your head in the sand isn't going to make it better. If enough people find out about the change that's needed then maybe it will happen.:awesomework:

Very true, I've amended my comments. Your mention of 'improper impounds' and 'improper arrests' is very true. That is why this post exists and is needed.

For example: If someone is wheeling on private property, because they were on DNR land and didn't see the sign (or if there wasn't one), that person has a very good defense from getting detained or impounded. However, if they didn't know that and a security officer decided to take their rig, they'd be in a world of hurt. Knowing the law is important when being approached by any LEO.

Another example, and I know Ron so it wouldn't happen up here... but if you were on DNR land, wheeling illegally and some officer wanted to impound your bike/vehicle, they cannot unless there is another issue that warrants it (see above). Ron is very respectable, acts within the confines of the law, in fact he is usually kinder to people than they usually deserve. My reading on some other DNR LEOs has been very similar. They're older, been around the block, know and respect the law.

 

[japerry]

I have nothing to add other than If you are damaging timber while doing this wheeling on private land, I believe they could confiscate your vehicle then.

Yup! http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=64.12.030

Very good. lets get a list of laws here. I really want people to be informed! :awesomework:

If you cut or damage timber, its considered trespass, which is a criminal offense, and you could face fines and/or jail time and confiscation of your vehicle.