Starting soon, recap.

[Not Jobless]

I could but it would make a differance :eeek:so why bother. I think I will just go talk to the dog at least he understands :awesomework:

I'm disapointed Jim. I like your reponses, they are typically filled with good info.

 

[JayH]

And doing the right thing makes you feel good.....
You should keep doing the right thing.:cheer:

Nope.

For instance, I believe that going to church is the right thing to do (for me Brad) but it sure doesn't make me feel good. I believe that sitting through disagreements with my wife and letting all the crap come out so that at the end she can feel better is the right thing to do, but it sure as hell doesn't make me feel good. Try again.

 

[Boonie Buster]

People do things like cleanups and work parties for one reason and one reason only, To make themselves feel better. Whether you feel better because you help others or you just like doing the work or..........It's because it somehow makes you feel better.
Now if it makes you feel better to do those things then go for it just don't fool yourself into thinking you're making a difference because you're probably not.

It's pure ignorance that that's what you think a clean-up solely is. There are people that genuinely enjoy cleaning up things for what it is, not to making themselves feel better. A clean-up to me is a gathering of those (not ALL are in this category) people who don't do regular cleaning in the area and can get out with a little push to help out. Most I feel do it to help, but don't know how, so they don't do anything to begin with on their normal outings (which if this were made clear at clean-ups and meetings things would STAY cleaner I believe :stirpot:: Not all cleaning of our area has to be done in 3-4 hours of mass trash cleaning. It can simpling be done when you stop on the trail or if you see something stop. Just bring a garbage bag. Throw stuff in the back, it's easy enough to spred it out in the trash system at home it's not going to break your bank. :awesomework:

 

[pokey]

Do you mean "wouldn't make a difference"?
Humor me.......

Yep yer right I cant spel worh a snit :booo:

Believing it's the right thing, and it is the right thing are two completely different things and should not be confused.

It's the same difference between fact & fiction.

Why does everyone get all hell bent outa shape cause we don't share their believes and actually pause to question & think about them?

People don't think, or they don't want to think, or maybe ignorance is bliss. Is asking people to think for themselves asking too much?

Prime example:
With all the information that the wheelin community now has, what is the next work party at Reiter doing?

I'm disapointed Jim. I like your reponses, they are typically filled with good info.

And you complain about my post:haha: Sorry to dissapoint you Brad I see now how you enjoy my comments I dont do the things I do because it makes me feel good. I do the work needed to keep our trails open because if we dont then we are doomed to loose them for sure. This includes clean ups /work partys and the political spectrum as well. The agencys simply do not have enough money or manpower to do it all so we help out to keep our hobby alive. Anybody that dosent put in some effort somehow is no differant than your typical welfare queen. Were not entitled to our sport we have to work for it.

 

[zukkev]

People do things like cleanups and work parties for one reason and one reason only, To make themselves feel better. Whether you feel better because you help others or you just like doing the work or..........It's because it somehow makes you feel better.
Now if it makes you feel better to do those things then go for it just don't fool yourself into thinking you're making a difference because you're probably not.

Well, I sure as hell don't feel better...in fact I'm usually beat, cut, bruised, tired and plain wore out...
I do it because if all the crap is just left there, or the bypasses are left alone, it will be that much more ammo for the greenies, which brings a point-----who do you think filled the dumpster/toolbox full of trash??? Don't think it was the 4x4 community, as we can't get up there, can we???:stirpot: point is again, the greenies only go after what's right in front of them, nevermind they are part of the problem as much as we, or any motorized user for that matter....

 

[Binder]

I thinksome of you guys misunderstood what I meant by "making you feel good". It's a broad term. If you keep peace with your wife then it helps you feel better. If you keep a area open to wheel then you can wheel and it makes you feel better. If you just do cleanups and have no other interest in the sport then you get your taint licked on the internet which makes you feel better......
This isn't meant as a stab at enyone it's just the way it is.
If planting grass makes you feel good even though it probably won't make a lick of difference to anything then go do it. My point is if this stuff makes you feel better then that's enough reason to keep doing it.:awesomework:

 

[Money Mark]

I broked up my rig on Sat and rode pasenger with Mark m. I picked up beer cans and trash throughout the day and even cleaned up the Rock Garden area a bit. I doubt anyone even noticed........and I don't need accolades.

I feel great!:redneck:

 

[Kat]

Good job Mark, too bad you broke. it was kind of funny seeing you warming a passanger seat.

 

[Mrs. Crash]

So did anyone see this article in the monitor? Online it's really small print and it's a back article, so I'm curious if anyone saw the actual article.

http://www.monroemonitor.com/Issues/032409issue/0324098.pdf

The undeveloped parking lot at Reiter Trails has been the jumping off
point for off-road vehicles headed for miles of rough road in the Reiter Hills area
for many years, but has never been officially sanctioned by the Department of
Natural Resources, which owns much of the land. By establishing the area as a
recreation area, the DNR hopes to control the worst side effects of the use, such
as litter in the forest, and balance the needs of all users, such as hikers, rock
climbers and area residents.


Balancing recreational off-road
driving with preserving forest
health and keeping safe access for
hikers and other non-motorized
recreation has been a challenge
for those planning a recreation
area in the Reiter Foothills area.
But efforts of a committee to
balance those interests are ongoing
and soon the Department of
Natural Resources will be ready
to present a plan for the area,
which has been unofficially used
as an off-road recreation area for
years.

 

[Patches]

Wow, it is truly amazing that the sheeple who were just at the RTW meeting this last Wednesday can't see past the fact that doing a "good deed" at Reiter and "doing what you can" to keep the place open is absurd.
You can put in all the volunteer hours you want between now and when the Planning Committee report comes out and it will have 0% (ZERO) affect on the outcome.

You can go re-read my other post in the locked thread.

While everyone at the RTW meeting was concerned about what to work on next, no one was even remotely concerned with the big picture that will present itself in a matter of a month or two. 99% of the people at the meeting didn

 

[zukkev]

It was the threats from F&W (who have much deeper pockets than DNR) of lawsuits that got North Fork closed...mainly due to the single tracks and quads not staying out of the north side of the road(near/in the river)--there were some other smaller issues, but nothing that woulda shut it down... It's unfortunate, because this area was some of the bestest, tightest wheelin' around!!!:booo:

 

[crash2]

Everyone here on this site might not like what Brad is saying, however, from my retired Deputy Fire Marshall and been their done that experience, he is right. All your do good efforts at this time are worthless as goverment agencies such as DNR manage the area, however, when Fish & Wildlife get complaints of river, creek or possible salmon issues they come down on DNR with a fix it or suffer the fines attuide. So DNR first steps their presents trying to apeese Fish & Wildlife then due to funding they can no longer keep up their patrols so they shut the area down. Sorry, but thats how it works.

I think we can all agree the real problem over use. Well what does Washington agencies expect when they keep closing our wheeling areas and forcing us congregate in other areas with more vehicles, humm...............

Yes and no. I can agree to a point.

If you have an area that is ok for trail use and so on. Now if that area is totally damaged and ripped up---do you think the DNR will be ok doing any kind of trail building, or improving the ex histing trail? IMO no, they will just close off that area completely. This is where I believe our efforts are doing some good. Sure, as stated the area could all together go away, but I like to look on the good site of crap myself.

 

[Binder]

I think we can all agree the real problem over use................

Good point and it made me think of starting a new thread to discuss.....

 

[crash2]

So they are going to increase law enforcement at Reiter. I think this is a good thing. Bout time they did something. Is is really going to happen this time? Are all the law abiding wheelers who stay on the trails and burn their campfires in drums off the ground going to lose out?

YES.

However, we CAN fight to keep things respectable at Reiter. I no longer have the time or inclination to do much of anything to promote our hobby. [Let me iterate: I'm back on Active duty and I really don't have time to spend. I really want to be involved, I just can't be] I spent the last 3 years of my life busting my ass with every user group possible and got very little done Govern-mentally. Which was just as I expected.

The problem is, there are different user groups inside the community. You can go to Reiter in your stock 4x4 land rover and have a blast, and you can go out like the local EBP and become bored.

The questions and answers I have are simple. EVERYONE *****es because we have a small few doing very little. This is true. We have a SMALL FEW working with THOSE WHO ARE THEY. While we have the MAJORITY of folks wheeling wherever. Whether hardcore EBP, or someone who just wants to dink around for the day.


THE PROBLEM IS THERE IS 98% **** TALK AND 2% Getting things done. That's how it is. Everyone has a problem and nobody has a solution.

You can talk all day in committees, groups, and forums. But who is getting things done?

Sadly, RTW is not and has not Met it's own goals. YES, they have had a few work parties in 3 years, AND have maintained good Government relations, they are also the group which maintains the cleanups. All of which are good things. But there are many **** talkers and not many doers in the group.

When it boils down to brass tax. The things that need to be done to keep everyone happy never will bel. And the arguments on an internet forum will continue.

The government doesn't give two ****s about you, The Respected Wheeling Community is taken care of by the "little" folks. Kim Gunter, David Way, Elyse Fleenor, Nancy Barker, Ron Whitehall. They have zero to little say in the upper echelon of LAND USEAGE. What do they want? Hours for projects or time that you put into the area. YOU CAN'T EVEN ****ING DO THAT.

There are simple things that the DNR ASKS THE COMMUNITY FOR. And the community doesn't respond. RTW as a whole and a group BARELY meets these requests.

RTW is doing what it can. 10% of its members are 100% dedicted. The rest are WORTHLESS.

Submit a time sheet, then *****.

THIS COMMUNITY AT REITER IS WAY MORE THAN ****ED. It's DISASTROUS. I 100% Commited my time and effort, and while I know it takes more than a little bit to convince the government that we are doing right, the only ones I know that are 100% committed are Kat and Rhonda.

Wheel Reiter while you can, Because when I get back from Deployment, it will probably be a mine/salmon hatchery.

So I decided to do some reading--and this "look at me" post kinda got me thinking..

So Karl, you state RTW has not met any goals and only done a few work parties..

So this got me to thinking.

Goals, sure when RTW was formed, like any group you have high hopes and big dreams. But those were all talked about and done well before you came into the picture. Have we met any goals? It depends. How can you meet goals, when you are working with an agency thats evolving and changing what we set out to achieve. In the time since we formed alot has changed, so again how can we set forth meetable goals, when in fact we don't even know whats around the corner?

You stated we have done a "few" work parties. Thats interesting. Guess your head is in the sand on this one.

 

[Nuzzy]

Have we met any goals? It depends. How can you meet goals, when you are working with an agency thats evolving and changing what we set out to achieve. In the time since we formed alot has changed, so again how can we set forth meetable goals, when in fact we don't even know whats around the corner?

(Just for discussion sake)

By that same token, what good is an organization that doesn't know what battles it's currently fighting? If things are changing so fast that goals cannot be followed through on, then how can the organization do anything useful?

 

[Not Jobless]

The target will stop moving in less than 2 months...

 

[crash2]

(Just for discussion sake)

By that same token, what good is an organization that doesn't know what battles it's currently fighting? If things are changing so fast that goals cannot be followed through on, then how can the organization do anything useful?

My reference was long term goals, not short term... Short term an aorganization needs to change and deal with it

 

[crash2]

The target will stop moving in less than 2 months...

We will actually know something in a month.

Have you seen all 3 proposed areas yet? 1080 acres to like 690 acress..

 

[grant1]

My reference was long term goals, not short term... Short term an aorganization needs to change and deal with it

When you start up anything it takes time to get through the many levels of Bureaucratic BS. I think RTW is on the right track.