The bad karma buggy

[smbroady82]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Here's my outlook these arnt a warranted vehicle. They dnt come off an assembly line were everyone of them is identical. Your gunna have problems I'm not saying it shouldn't be right wen u pick it up.but if you think steel dnt bend and **** dnt brake your on cloud 9. I've redone so much **** on all my bouncers I dnt even wanna get started but I enjoy it and leave it at that.

I see what you are saying, and I agree, there is not a "mold" for these things, but If I paid 40-50-60-70/hour I would expect "right", that's all I was saying

 

[scrambled]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

I'd imagine it feels pretty damn good to get this **** of yer chest. The fact that you kept it private for so long shows that you are stand up dude. The builder sending a private message to the dude running this place that shows me that he's going to bed tonight with this **** on his mind.





Granted he may be thinking "that fawker owes me money for ma booty fab" but he's thinkin'

 

[BUG-E J]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

I'd imagine it feels pretty damn good to get this **** of yer chest. The fact that you kept it private for so long shows that you are stand up dude. The builder sending a private message to the dude running this place that shows me that he's going to bed tonight with this **** on his mind.





Granted he may be thinking "that fawker owes me money for ma booty fab" but he's thinkin'

Thanks man. I fallowed your thread and voiced my opinion slightly. I wish now I would have been more outspoken.

 

[Draco]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Sounds about like mine went..."I didn't know" "I don't recall that" "It's someone else's fault" "Bring it back I'll fix it"

Same guy work on mine?

Don't worry about it Jon. The price vs. work speaks for itself.

 

[ibrokeit]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Sounds about like mine went..

Are you saying that you had a deal go south with CSC also?

 

[alli85]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

This deal is why no matter if your getting the buddy deal or whatever that the work and all parts that it includes should be put on paper and you see exactly what your getting done and what it's going to cost. Then when you get it and it isn't the quality work you paid for then you go back and try to work something out with the builder. That's why when everyone says how much to build a buggy there is no way to really tell unless you get it quoted with exactly what you want done and the exact parts you want used! Just my opinion and it isn't worth much.

 

[BUG-E J]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

This deal is why no matter if your getting the buddy deal or whatever that the work and all parts that it includes should be put on paper and you see exactly what your getting done and what it's going to cost. Then when you get it and it isn't the quality work you paid for then you go back and try to work something out with the builder. That's why when everyone says how much to build a buggy there is no way to really tell unless you get it quoted with exactly what you want done and the exact parts you want used! Just my opinion and it isn't worth much.

This is spot on. I don't care if its my mom from now on if I do business over 100 bucks we will start on paper with both parties agreeing. I thought this was a lesson learned for both of us.

 

[BUG-E J]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Sounds about like mine went..."I didn't know" "I don't recall that" "It's someone else's fault" "Bring it back I'll fix it"

Same guy work on mine?

Don't worry about it Jon. The price vs. work speaks for itself.

So you are saying you know how I feel?

 

[Joc]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

................................

I said ALL that to say this... I take all responsibility on the poor craftsmanship on White Power. The ONLY way I can right the wrong, is to fix it and I OFFERED. His money is still owed regardless. Only He and I know the exact words that were exchanged. A real man would approach it to your face and demand his buggy be fixed upto par. Not bad mouth to everyone and then take to social media to plead his case to a jury of his peers. My statement to this jury of his peers is this, the offer still stands - I am willing to make right the wrong done to Jonathan Andrews by CSC Fab assuming that his debt is paid upon completion. After speaking with Jonathan at Greyrock and him telling me about working 2 jobs and his hard luck financial situation, that is the only reason I have not got my attorney involved. Yet as a business owner, I have every right to.

Thanks for letting my post my 'FACTS.'

Im sorry this may be out of line but I cant help but laugh at this statement if we are a "jury"

Well thats where the FACTS are. Are we suppose to believe all this other jibber jabber after that statement?

 

[Draco]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Are you saying that you had a deal go south with CSC also?

My fab work wasn't near as bad...It was mostly done when it got there. I was told a bunch of stuff that never happened.

$20k later I had a buggy that I spent several dollars and hours on to finish. I got the same thing...Bring it back. Blah blah blah.
Why in the hell would I do that? Quality wasn't a priority to begin with...Why should it change?? Blaming someone else seems to be consistent...That's about the only thing.

I'm glad Yank is happy with his. They are nice. But why wouldn't other customers be equally treated with the attention to detail these clearly have?

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Labron, lets forget all the shitty work for a min. Why in the world did you ever let something leave your shop that money was owed on?

 

[Mr. leafspring]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

BOY THAT CSC POST WAS SOME INTENSE ****

 

[Shortbus]

Re: Mash yer motor - csc fab bouncer

Labron, lets forget all the shitty work for a min. Why in the world did you ever let something leave your shop that money was owed on?

It was a mistake but I'm sure thought could take a man's word to pay. Also, if something is not what you expected why agree to pay in full before leaving?

 

[94xjsport94]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

This is all very interesting and got even more so now that I got home from work. Lots of great questions and points being made here regarding the integrity of business practices as well as the way people handle their own business and beef with others. I agree there should be a "So, you want to buy a buggy..." Sticky.

How many rigs or projects were in your shop while Jonathan's buggy was being built? I find it incredibly difficult to fathom not checking over an employees work when it is leaving your shop and has your name and reputation so closely attached to it, especially when the deal was formed off a promotional/ racing basis.

Jonathan, why did you continue to fund CSC's spending escapade if you were uncomfortable after dropping your parts off for the first time? You ended up spending all your money on this thing. Did the thought or worry of that never cross your mind before it got to that point?

 

[BUG-E J]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

This is all very interesting and got even more so now that I got home from work. Lots of great questions and points being made here regarding the integrity of business practices as well as the way people handle their own business and beef with others. I agree there should be a "So, you want to buy a buggy..." Sticky.

How many rigs or projects were in your shop while Jonathan's buggy was being built? I find it incredibly difficult to fathom not checking over an employees work when it is leaving your shop and has your name and reputation so closely attached to it, especially when the deal was formed off a promotional/ racing basis.

Jonathan, why did you continue to fund CSC's spending escapade if you were uncomfortable after dropping your parts off for the first time? You ended up spending all your money on this thing. Did the thought or worry of that never cross your mind before it got to that point?

A sticky is a pretty good idea. Get something in writing of what you want and what you expect on top of other things. Is my chassis beautiful? YES. Was the function and quality of fabwork there? NO. I kept going and spending because I was told in the end it would be ready to go turn key with the exception of the motor and some wiring. I figured if it was less **** I had to do and would be perfect why not? I had told Labron EXACTLY how much money I had and when it got to the point STOP, DO NOT TOUCH MY BUGGY. He still managed to blow past that number.

Earlier in this thread I made a statement that was removed. I stated something along the lines of before I took my buggy back to him and decided not to pay the remaining balance I talked with different people who had the same experience. At one point I felt like I got off lucky. Well Labron had that comment removed because I couldn't prove it. 2 of the people I have become friends with because of our experience have posted on here. One is talking a comma in the ten thousands place where mine was in the thousands. Damn I got off lucky! I'm not asking for my comment to be reinstated just showing that everything I post I can prove. I am not going through the long csc post and picking out the things I want removed because it "makes me look bad." I have nothing to hide and admitted the things I felt I did wrong.

 

[crawlin85cj]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

This may be way out of line, if so then ignore it. What kind of money are we talking here? For me that's very relevant.

I have competitors that will work dirt cheap and their customers get what they pay for. My business will not participate in that. We will downgrade options, use a less costly engine or buy cheap tires if a customer pushes for it but we will not take the job if we can not turn out quality workmanship for the money. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of folks out there that will take on work and put there lowest guy on it so they can still make money. At that point quality will undoubtedly degrade.

All that to ask this...Did you pay for bottom shelf work and expect top shelf quality? Did you pay for top shelf quality and receive bottom shelf junk? It is relevant


2010 Jim's Garage 4429
2012 Jim's Garage YJ
2013 Wide Open Design WFO

 

[bbone]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

All that to ask this...Did you pay for bottom shelf work and expect top shelf quality? Did you pay for top shelf quality and receive bottom shelf junk? It is relevant

Somewhere in here lies the answer to both parties involved.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

cRAWLIN85CJ post hits the nail on the head. Im not trying to tell LeBron how to run his business, but this is what I do now after years of learning the hard way with people. just writing stuff down doesn't cure all problems, I had tried this and had the guy sign the sheet on a build one time, he later said it wasn't his signature and he had never seen the sheet before. If someone comes to me and wants to cut any corners on parts, bolts, buying tabs, saving money by going to shop to shop for labor, I run from the deal.The only way ive seen that you can make everyone happy is build them and sell them, that way they know what there getting when the money changes hands.

I hope this doesn't make everyone mad but this hobby has more people that are unrealistic with services and prices than any thing Ive been around. You are not going to get Picture perfect welds that look like they belong in nasa for hardly any money. It takes some serious time to completely weld out a full buggy. To do it to NASA quality you would spend a week in prepping the material.Are the ones on the front of rated x perfect NO would they fail I would think NO.
Im not trying to be a **** to the OP but if your that tight on the funds and wanted to have a new race buggy, I would have waited till I could do it and not put me in such a pinch, I honestly think that If money would not have been an issue and corners were no cut then this would not be on here at all. I have found out through personal experiences that a lot of bad decisions are made by people when money is an issue. And once agiain im not trying to come off as a **** Im just trying to give you something to think about.


Yall wanted a jury so here it goes, I would be the first to vote that both partys walk away from it with lessons learned, if anything pay half of what is owed so that both partys feel a little bit of pain, Pain is a good teacher.

 

[muddinmetal]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

This may be way out of line, if so then ignore it. What kind of money are we talking here? For me that's very relevant.

I have competitors that will work dirt cheap and their customers get what they pay for. My business will not participate in that. We will downgrade options, use a less costly engine or buy cheap tires if a customer pushes for it but we will not take the job if we can not turn out quality workmanship for the money. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of folks out there that will take on work and put there lowest guy on it so they can still make money. At that point quality will undoubtedly degrade.

All that to ask this...Did you pay for bottom shelf work and expect top shelf quality? Did you pay for top shelf quality and receive bottom shelf junk? It is relevant


2010 Jim's Garage 4429
2012 Jim's Garage YJ
2013 Wide Open Design WFO

The quality of work performed should not change based on price!!! EVER! A quality wood worker can put the same sheen on a 2x4 that he can a piece of mahogany imported from Honduras & honestly I would expect him to want to because he takes pride in his work... A mechanic can still properly tighten a bolt whether he is making $35 a hour or doing a job for a 6 pack, can he not? If you found one of the best welders in the world to weld some pipe for you & he agree to do a job for you for a price & then you saw his welds & they were piss poor & dangerous, how would you feel is he said, "well, you didn't pay me enough to do good work!" You'd flip the hell out!!!!

This "you got what you paid for" stuff is BS.. You get what quality of work the man you are paying is willing to give you... In this case, CSC was obviously content with letting sub par work leave the shop, case closed....

 

[redneckengineered]

Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy

CSC has acknowledged the shitty work. Why has no one addressed the fact that he has offered on an open forum to fix all the things that are ****ed up with Jonathan's buggy if Jonathan pays the final tab? For all the bitching I've seen about how ****ed up his buggy is, this seems like a good deal to me.