Tire size and trail damage--my prospective.

[Alan]

Hi All:

I think we need to look at the "total vehicle package," that is how the rig is equipped, not just the size and/or tread design of its tires.

I think a lot of the trails/forest roads one finds torn-up in Eastern Washington in the spring are caused by guys in big pick-ups with open differentials. They think since their rig has a V-8, lift, and big tires they will be "golden" on the soft and wet dirt roads and trails. When they start getting stuck, they respond by hitting the stupid pedal, causing the tires to dig to China.

If these big tired, v-8 powered trucks also had locking diffs they would make it over these muddy trails much easier, with little need for excessive wheel spin. Of course, *having a clue* how to 'wheel can be helpful as well! :looser:

Regards,

Alan

 

[zukkev]

"your perspective". Since I am in such a jim dandy mood I am going out to the shop to kill something....

Poor, poor Flattie...:haha:

My perspective...based on what I have seen in the pics on the Kaner. For the last few years the two original lines had remained pretty much the way they were, until this year....
IF the two main lines in the pics were left, and the left line directly in front of the bridge were to be used soley by the 'bigger tired' folk, leaving the right line alone for the lesser-equipped rigs to get thru, things would likely have been manageable. But this is not the case now. Now there's an off-camber bypass to the left of the original left line, which partly passes thru what the bridge was trying to protect....not good in the eyes of the FS.

 

[Handover Fist]

Way too many variables to pin it on just one of them but I believe it is due to overcrowding/over use of the trail system. Take away the big tires engines etcetera and there will be the same problems. We need more trails to spread out the usage instead of throwing everyone in the same egg basket and making a mess of things.

Its not as simple as limiting tire height for trails. We need to set minimums not maximums for the trails and offer trails for everyone. But alas this is not a perfect world and this argument with all its finger pointing will not end untill our rigs are collecting rust and we are telling stories to the young ones about the good ole days when you could enjoy the outdoors in a four wheel drive.
But untill then I'm going to run the largest earth ripping tire possible and continue my never ending search for more horsepower.

 

[jimpaget]

I am at the opposite end of the spectrum from most of you. I drive an Isuzu Trooper which still has the IFS. I now run 33 ProComp X-Terrains that have been grooved. I have mild crawler gears in the t-case and stock 4.56 gears in the axles. I have ARB lockers in both ends. I am running around 170 horse and 200 ft. lbs. from a Chevy 3.4 with a Holley TBI.

Both before and after the lockers I have run Isabel (R.I.P) as far as the bridge. I occasionally spin my tires, but usually only when something on my under-carriage hangs up on something.

Would I go to bigger tires? Probably, because it would give me more ground clearance.

I try to go easy on the throttle as I am always aware that my from axle is the weak point in my whole set-up.

I have run most trails at Moab on both 31s and 32s. The issue there is not traction or even ground clearance (most of the time) but rather picking the right line.

 

[dirtygoat]

At Naches over Memorial Day, there was an open/open Toyota with small tires digging holes and holding everyone up(~20 rigs)... All the other rigs, be it big tire or small tire, had very little issue with the same spot...

In the '70s, the Naches Trail had ruts that were 2-4 feet deep all over the place... Was that because of tire size???

I agree about the terrain being prone to easy damage, but it doesn't help when there is a rig with a driver that is an ass hat behind the wheel... It could be any type of rig, any size of tire, it doesn't matter...

With the wrong person in control, any rig can cause a huge amount of damage...

 

[03 CON]

I believe that with the use comes the problems, we have well over 100 people using less lane miles that 1 person used to use back in the 70s....:booo:

 

[Horus]

The majority of the blame for the "trail damage" we are talking about here rests on the shoulders of the Forest Service and DNR.

There are FAR TOO FEW miles of ORV trails in relation to the volume of users. Period. If we had five Elbes, five Tahuyas, nine Walkers, six and a half Reiters (pre closing BYS, Izzy, etc) and a few Ravensdales we would not be having this conversation. What happened to Kaner is a direct result of closing Reiter.

People WILL wheel. Every time DNR or FS close or restrict access to trails THEY cause damage to remaining areas.

Volume! Traffic! Not tires, axles or power.

 

[Binder]

Mike is right with the first post as it's the person using the tool which damages the trail whether it be a tire or a bulldozer. Pokey is also right that the perspective of the land manager is what really matters too. I think most of the land managers are uninformed for the most part and they think it's just the big tires. For the few land managers who have a clue the result is the same though. If you take away the tool which the person uses to do the damage then the problem is fixed no matter which point of view you use. Unfortunately though it still won't fix the problem and things will get pushed even further when the big tires are gone. This is why I think the small tire guys need to join the fight as they're next, they just don't know it yet.:awesomework:

 

[bigiron]

Mike is right with the first post as it's the person using the tool which damages the trail whether it be a tire or a bulldozer. Pokey is also right that the perspective of the land manager is what really matters too. I think most of the land managers are uninformed for the most part and they think it's just the big tires. For the few land managers who have a clue the result is the same though. If you take away the tool which the person uses to do the damage then the problem is fixed no matter which point of view you use. Unfortunately though it still won't fix the problem and things will get pushed even further when the big tires are gone. This is why I think the small tire guys need to join the fight as they're next, they just don't know it yet.:awesomework:

this is a very good point you make Rick....it is not the tire it's defiantly the driver and his level of offroad education....I was at kanner memorial day with my 44's and turned back when I saw the trail that was pictured....it had very deep ruts....could I have run it....YES...did I? ....NO....I was educated and knew that my running that stretch would have seriously tore it up...because the only why you were going up it was with some wheel speed to keep your tires clean....(or winching) and I chose to turn around and run the gravel road instead

 

[Murkman]

this is a very good point you make Rick....it is not the tire it's defiantly the driver and his level of offroad education....I was at kanner memorial day with my 44's and turned back when I saw the trail that was pictured....it had very deep ruts....could I have run it....YES...did I? ....NO....I was educated and knew that my running that stretch would have seriously tore it up...because the only why you were going up it was with some wheel speed to keep your tires clean....(or winching) and I chose to turn around and run the gravel road instead

What is it that we as a wheeling community can do to get your knowledge to the mass's. The trails were open and could be legally be used, yet you choose for good reason not to. That is the message we need to get to everyone. I would appreciate seeing ideas as how to accomplish this!

 

[no excuses]

I think youre first post was spot on Mike, big or small tires its the person behind the gas pedal who does the damage. Blaming it on the tires is like blaming the spoon for Rosane Barr being fatuke:..

 

[NotSoPC]

WoW. I really think tires have nothing to do with it. I can rip **** up on a 30" A/T or a 54" Bogger it dont ****in matter in the end cause to the FS and DNR it is ALL BAD!!! They dont care what type of tire did it they are going to blame it on who ever they want unless they are given pic or video proof other wise. If they want to blame ruts on big ass tires and not those with middle of the pack tires then fine. Thats what they will do unless you show them pics or video of a guy on 37's hammer down throwin all sorts of mud.


FYI: A guy with 37's and some motor can dig, in soft mud, a rut that, when dry, will hang up a toyota on 36's. Not all deep rut are from gig tires but also middle of the pack tires. Just how I look at it:beer:

 

[WAYCRAZY]

What is it that we as a wheeling community can do to get your knowledge to the mass's. The trails were open and could be legally be used, yet you choose for good reason not to. That is the message we need to get to everyone. I would appreciate seeing ideas as how to accomplish this!

I have talked the the Naches Dist. about what they think about the damage. And lets say they were not pleased. They do however lay part of the blame on them selves. They should of closed the trail systems until they dried out a little more. All in all they hoped people would of been responsible and took the view of Big Iron and turn around when they saw the trails condition. But people did not and the trails got ripped up.I hope you all believe me when I tell you they will not make that mistake again.So was it big tires ,Small tires, jeeps,fullsizes,Toys,buggys that tore things up? The answer is YES! When I saw the damage done on Kaner I was amazed. At the end of last year the section of Kaner that was pictured had a mud hole past the bridge and one bi-pass on the right side. Now the original bi-pass is unusable . There are two new bi-passes on the left. This all happened on Memorial weekend! The bi-pass on Aardvark hill is in worse shape then the original trail.

 

[Jay Luke]

I'm looking forward to testing out some 40's on my rig this weekend:cheer:

 

[85b2man]

i hear keith threw the 47s on his bugggy let us know how those work lol

 

[nowires]

I'm looking forward to testing out some 40's on my rig this weekend:cheer:

You will never go back

 

[monstaru]

regardless of all of this.if the guys with the knowledge of "how to" do not teach the guys with the big right foot, it will not matter anymore.because we will not have anywhere to go.and we will all be outlaws again....
cheers, brian

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I think we are going to do a 31 inch busywild run before the summer is up.

Ill take pics and such and compare the little tire damage to the 38 inch tire damage.

Anyone else wanna do a 31 AT challenge? Built rigs, little rubber. Sounds fun.

 

[Damnyankee]

I think we are going to do a 31 inch busywild run before the summer is up.

Ill take pics and such and compare the little tire damage to the 38 inch tire damage.

Anyone else wanna do a 31 AT challenge? Built rigs, little rubber. Sounds fun.

i've thought about this and it would be fun.. don't know about on the busy wild though.. hmm..

anybody got a set of tires i can barrow?

 

[TreeClimber]

I think we are going to do a 31 inch busywild run before the summer is up.

Ill take pics and such and compare the little tire damage to the 38 inch tire damage.

Anyone else wanna do a 31 AT challenge? Built rigs, little rubber. Sounds fun.

Loan me some wheels and tires?