To Weepow or not?

nhl_bullitt · Apr 1, 2017

lowbudgetjunk said:
If you ever find yourself saying...I could use more power, or if I had an automatic. Buy an LS, auto, tons and some sticky's. No one with that combo has ever said, "I wish I had half the cylinders, a manual, a 10 bolt and some Ground Hawgs."

laughing1

So first off, I'm a believer in lighter is better. Keep that in mind with any build.

It depends on the wheeling. Rock crawling large boulders on level ground can be done with skill and anything that has power to 4 wheels.

However, I will use an obstacle at my local park as an example. It is right off of an access trail. No it is not some long, loose steep hill, or something you have to jump. But you are not going to idle yourself up it. You need wheelbase and readily available wheel speed. After your front tires crest the top, and while you are still moving forward, you have to mash the gas with a purpose. I don't have much, but the mild 350 and 5.13s gets the job done every day I try it. FWIW, I literally have never seen anybody else make it in person, and this is the place I go to every month. Other people make it, especially buggies, just not who I'm with I guess.

Like a lot of hillside ledges deep in the woods, it almost always has a slimy texture to it. That is just a physical example of what I come across a lot while wheeling. Stickies have absolutely helped the cause for getting away with less HP but sometimes it only goes so far.

Again, what obstacles are you hoping to conquer out there. Totally up to the builder/driver.

The yj in the pic has 114wb for reference.

DSCN2925 https://www.flickr.com/photos/146897672@N05/

lowbudgetjunk · Apr 1, 2017

ftoy516 said:
personally, i think it is what you make it...and a low buy in price definitely helps. A 1K investment can net you just a much fun as a 50K or more investment.....maybe in different ways, but the fun is what you make it for sure.

wheeling environment and wheeling style all play a huge factor in the choice of rig.

There's also 16k 4 cylinder tugs and 6k 8 cylinder rigs. Sacrifices on both side of the coin. I love me some 4 cylinders of fury, have an inline and V6, but prefer and long for an LS every time I hear one screaming on a trail.

Red97 · Apr 1, 2017

https://youtu.be/x3Mf5RbBSt0

Here is another obstacle, after I got half way up I really started hating my sub 90"wb a few of the blocks had got dislocated causing a ledge taller than my 35's was the first trip in the buggy. I ran outta balls and backed down lol.

onepieceatatime · Apr 1, 2017

Re:

There's times I want an underpowered over Built weepow rig because I'm tired of tearing **** up with my v8, but I've realized that most **** I'm tearing up now is because of my booty fab and I'm trying to fix all that.

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dwa2469 · Apr 1, 2017

I have come to think, that no matter what you build or buy their will be a situation, you will want something else. More power, more storage, lighter, etc. etc. I have heard it all. I have not met very many people that would'nt change something if they could. I see rigs for sale all the time that I think would be the perfect rig, but, for that person it is not. I think that is what fuels the innovation of our sport/hobby.

poolman · Apr 1, 2017

I've had several zuk 1.3s, Toyotas with 22rs, and jeeps with sbc 350 and 400s and now a big block. I really think it depends on what you want to do, trail rides, Hill kill, ect. And who/where you ride with. Just my opinion

mckeddie · Apr 1, 2017

Red97 said:
https://youtu.be/x3Mf5RbBSt0

Here is another obstacle, after I got half way up I really started hating my sub 90"wb a few of the blocks had got dislocated causing a ledge taller than my 35's was the first trip in the buggy. I ran outta balls and backed down lol.

That climb eats up my 103 too. Don't feel bad.

karatejosh · Apr 1, 2017

i have a 4 banger 22r to be exact and most the guys i ride with have v8 and i hang just fine i wish i had a auto more then a v8 but im super light 2600 pounds i almost got out the top of pony hill last year i just added a small turbo and it seems to be working great i think it will be just what i need

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Red97 · Apr 2, 2017

Guess I just need to get out and wheel more. See if I can't find some wheeling buddies to meet up with.
Do some upgrades to my current geo.

I have acess to a tin top geo, that I really want to build into my next rig. I really want to run a busa engine, th350, toy doubler. Think that would be a sweet setup for a lightweight rig.

Busa in 1st (2.5x ratio) theoretically would be putting 400 hp 200lb into the tq converter, and not spinning much more than 5k to the transmission at redline.

All sounds good on paper, just don't know if it is really worth it, vs spending that coin on the 1.6,or v8

I do have a fairly healthy old school 327 th 400 to build a v8 rig around lol. Too many decisions..

I appreciate all the feedback.

stano · Apr 2, 2017

I wheeled a YJ with the mighty 2.5l for years. There was only one time I was praying for more power, wasn't even the trail, but on the return road. It was slick clay and wet, I couldn't get enough wheel speed in low side, but couldn't pull it in high side. I finally asked for a tow from a friend but not before I beat its brains out trying. hmmmmm, now that I think about it, that was its last trip before I parted it out to build the buggy....(w/ a v8.......). If you have the stuff laying around or have a donor vehicle for the 4 cyl stuff, I'd use it. But if you have to spend hours/weeks scavenging it up from the ends of the earth, I'd go LS because there it's everywhere, just like a virus.........

Jon Piper · Apr 2, 2017

Red97 said:
Guess I just need to get out and wheel more. See if I can't find some wheeling buddies to meet up with.
Do some upgrades to my current geo.

I have acess to a tin top geo, that I really want to build into my next rig. I really want to run a busa engine, th350, toy doubler. Think that would be a sweet setup for a lightweight rig.

Busa in 1st (2.5x ratio) theoretically would be putting 400 hp 200lb into the tq converter, and not spinning much more than 5k to the transmission at redline.

All sounds good on paper, just don't know if it is really worth it, vs spending that coin on the 1.6,or v8

I do have a fairly healthy old school 327 th 400 to build a v8 rig around lol. Too many decisions..

I appreciate all the feedback.

You should talk to Aw10 on here - good dude and he built a Busa powered buggy not too long ago

1tfrot · Apr 2, 2017

mckeddie said:
That climb eats up my 103 too. Don't feel bad.

if it makes ya feel better, my 116" walks up it :flipoff1:

fun little climb, that park is evolving in a nice way

1tfrot · Apr 2, 2017

dwa2469 said:
I have come to think, that no matter what you build or buy their will be a situation, you will want something else. More power, more storage, lighter, etc. etc. I have heard it all. I have not met very many people that would'nt change something if they could. I see rigs for sale all the time that I think would be the perfect rig, but, for that person it is not. I think that is what fuels the innovation of our sport/hobby.

well said. exactly why I had one built. tried to get everything I wanted/needed in the budget I could afford. definitely got tiring redesigning the s10 truggy (previous rig) over the years to try and get what I wanted out of it.

alscott · Apr 2, 2017

I think its hard to beat a good toyota buggy. A turbo will fix the power issue until you get on something really long and steep where hp is key but in my experience most toyota guys arent hill killers anyway. I did the toyota axle deal for a long time but with 42s and big boost I was killing rear gears. If I knew what I know now I would have done tons first thing and not built the toy axles. I had enough done to my old toy axles to have built a good d60. I finally sold the toy axles and built front and rear 14 bolts and went to 43 stickys. With the turbo and what I wheel which is everything except hill killing, I rarely ever dont have enough hp. Im still running toy 5 speed and dual cases.

Red97 · Apr 2, 2017

1tfrot said:
if it makes ya feel better, my 116" walks up it fun little climb, that park is evolving in a nice way

I was hoping you would chime in.

Your buggy is 4 seat correct? How does full width 116" fit through the woods at bundy? Think the trail is "mild to wild"

Have you seen any 4cyl rigs fall short in the mi parks? Bundy,R/V,Twisted? Every time I have been to bundy it was a dust bowl, and hp was not needed.

rednecklights said:
You should talk to Aw10 on here - good dude and he built a Busa powered buggy not too long ago

J thomas samurai/buggy, an Aw10's buggy were some of the major motivators behind the bike power rig. I think with an auto they would be bout perfect for what I like to do. "Think" is the key word.

alscott said:
I think its hard to beat a good toyota buggy. A turbo will fix the power issue until you get on something really long and steep where hp is key but in my experience most toyota guys arent hill killers anyway. I did the toyota axle deal for a long time but with 42s and big boost I was killing rear gears. If I knew what I know now I would have done tons first thing and not built the toy axles. I had enough done to my old toy axles to have built a good d60. I finally sold the toy axles and built front and rear 14 bolts and went to 43 stickys. With the turbo and what I wheel which is everything except hill killing, I rarely ever dont have enough hp. Im still running toy 5 speed and dual cases.

That is part of the reason I kick myself for selling the toy axles I had

. if I were to step up to 39"+ tires, might as well do tons+, at that point the V8 would make sense.

Not that a turbo 4 wouldn't get the job done, but the couple hundred lbs for the V8 would see worth it in a rig that size?

tonybolton · Apr 2, 2017

Re:

The only time I enjoy the V8 in my Jeep is when I'm pulling someone out or pulling something out of the trail.

For the trails that I like and the riding that I do a decent stock four liter Jeep motor would probably be just fine.

Axles/trans/case/tires/motor are my order of importance.

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1tfrot · Apr 2, 2017

Red97 said:
I was hoping you would chime in.

Your buggy is 4 seat correct? How does full width 116" fit through the woods at bundy? Think the trail is "mild to wild"

Have you seen any 4cyl rigs fall short in the mi parks? Bundy,R/V,Twisted? Every time I have been to bundy it was a dust bowl, and hp was not needed.

J thomas samurai/buggy, an Aw10's buggy were some of the major motivators behind the bike power rig. I think with an auto they would be bout perfect for what I like to do. "Think" is the key word.

That is part of the reason I kick myself for selling the toy axles I had . if I were to step up to 39"+ tires, might as well do tons+, at that point the V8 would make sense.

Not that a turbo 4 wouldn't get the job done, but the couple hundred lbs for the V8 would see worth it in a rig that size?

I've been to many places/parks around the country and I've honestly never had an issue anywhere being full width so far. and correct, mine is a 4 seater.

well built 4 cyl/6 cyl rigs do quite well in private parks like Bundy/TT/R&V/badlands.... most of them (except for spots of bundy) don't need wheel speed. there's always a bump needed from time to time, but ground clearance and articulation are more important for places like those imo. driver mod helps too molaugh

if it helps, here was the turning point for me.......... a trip to Harlan and I ran stuff like creampuff (dry-ish) on 37s with the original 4.3 in my s10 truggy with little effort. I got bound up in lions den (between that tree and the large rock) and had the gas pedal to the floor and I didn't have enough gearing and/or HP to break free. out came the winch. I decided that day that I wanted more HP and then started looking.

feel free to ask any other questions.

Grant117 · Apr 2, 2017

3rz has a huge advantage over a 1.6 or 22re. I have 14b and kp60 with 5.13s, stock 3rz, 340 automatic, 4.7tc, and 39 reds. Best rig I've had!

Forgot to say that it isn't full width. Rear has cab and chassis hubs 63" wms front I cut 4.5" off the long side 65" wms.

nhl_bullitt · Apr 2, 2017

Re:

tonybolton said:
The only time I enjoy the V8 in my Jeep is when I'm pulling someone out or pulling something out of the trail.

For the trails that I like and the riding that I do a decent stock four liter Jeep motor would probably be just fine.

The 4.0 is no slouch though. That is on a completely different level than a 1.6 4 cylinder.

tonybolton · Apr 2, 2017

Right...I guess that reads wrong, or I just left out the "I don't think a stock 4cyl motor would be much fun other than gas sipping". Maybe a Neon SRT 4 motor or some sort F.I. 4cyl would be cool(er).

alscotts turbo 22r motor turns his 14bolts just fine from what I've seen. I've been in Toyota groups with 4 n/a 4 bangers and it was brutal watching tread blocks turn for 10 minutes...moving 2 inches at a time.