Binder--> horsepower & torque

[Glenn]

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm

Do you agree with this guy's explanation?

 

[Binder]

I read through it quickly and it seems correct. Why do you ask?

 

[Glenn]

Just wanted to get your 2

 

[Binder]

In fact that artice backs what has aways been my "rant" on this subject...

Think of it another way: In cars of equal weight, a 2-liter twin-cam engine that makes 300 HP at 8000 RPM (197 lb-ft) and 400 HP at 10,000 RPM (210 lb-ft) will get you out of a corner just as well as a 5-liter engine that makes 300 HP at 4000 RPM (394 lb-ft) and 400 HP at 5000 RPM (420 lb-ft).

Notice the two engines have the same HP numbers but very different torque numbers yet they are basically equal.:;
It's all about HP. Torque is just one of the variables to get to the HP.:cheer:

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

In fact that artice backs what has aways been my "rant" on this subject...



Notice the two engines have the same HP numbers but very different torque numbers yet they are basically equal.:;
It's all about HP. Torque is just one of the variables to get to the HP.:cheer:

So in that sense we can hook up to a lightly modified pickup pushing 425 HP at the flywheel and it'll move 80k down the road just as good as the old volvo with a 3406E caterpiller that's rated at the very same 425 flywheel HP and they'll pull the same. Looks like we've been doing it all wrong and should junk the heavy turbo diesels that only get 6 MPG for ls series gasser V8's that'll get easily triple that! :cheer:

 

[Binder]

So in that sense we can hook up to a lightly modified pickup pushing 425 HP at the flywheel and it'll move 80k down the road just as good as the old volvo with a 3406E caterpiller that's rated at the very same 425 flywheel HP and they'll pull the same. Looks like we've been doing it all wrong and should junk the heavy turbo diesels that only get 6 MPG for ls series gasser V8's that'll get easily triple that! :cheer:

Basically yes but there are other issues like duty cycle of the engine....Torque does have other uses but pulling down the road with a load which requires 300HP doesn't matter if it's a big diesel or a whole bunch of field mice on a hamster wheel...:;

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

:haha: No ****ing way can a pickup move that kinda weight with ANY sense of speed or hill climbing ability. You're dreaming mang. :haha:

 

[Binder]

:haha: No ****ing way can a pickup move that kinda weight with ANY sense of speed or hill climbing ability. You're dreaming mang. :haha:

A pickup truck would be too light. You would have to mount the pickup engine in the big rig and regear to compensate for the different RPM range........Even then the pickup engine won't last long.

Lots of people have different opinions. There are opinions and there are facts. It's a fact that torque by itself moves nothing.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

I agree that torque alone doesn't do a whole lot but when I have 1600 ft lbs of torque under my right foot and the pickup has 500ish I win every single time.

 

[Binder]

I agree that torque alone doesn't do a whole lot but when I have 1600 ft lbs of torque under my right foot and the pickup has 500ish I win every single time.

Actually no, that's incorrect......It's a matter of how much horsepower that 1600 lbs is turned into. At what RPM does it make 1600 ft lbs? At what RPM does the pickup make 500 ft lbs?

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

I run down the road at about 1600 rpm, peak torque is somewhere around 1400 rpm. You can gear a pickup all you like but it won't move that load anywhere near as well if it can move it at all. If you ran an infinite geared auto trans it would have half a chance but I don't see it being anywhere nearly as fast getting up to speed.

 

[Binder]

I run down the road at about 1600 rpm, peak torque is somewhere around 1400 rpm. You can gear a pickup all you like but it won't move that load anywhere near as well if it can move it at all. If you ran an infinite geared auto trans it would have half a chance but I don't see it being anywhere nearly as fast getting up to speed.

1600 ft lbs at 1400 RPM is 426.5 hp.....Yes a typical pickup engine is going to have a narrow power band compared to the big rig. You would have to gear it to stay in it's power band.......The pickup WILL move the load with the correct gearing. You could move it with a 5hp Briggs and Stratton with enough gears......
The fact that the big truck runs at lower RPM's makes it more suited to move the load also. At lower RPM's less gear reduction is needed which means a given gear will have a greater MPH range.....Combine that with the longer power curve and yes this maks a big difference....None of which is dependant on torque....
Torque is needed for specific things but torque at the wheels, not necessarily at the engine.
At this point things are getting deep and I've had quite a bit of rum..:alcoholic:

 

[Binder]

I guess what it boils down too is a snap shot in time XX HP is equal to XX HP. That doesn't make the trucks the same it just makes the power output during that snapshot the same.....But torque isn't even in the picture.:redneck:

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

In this context, torque refers to the total amount of work that the 3406 engine can do, while horsepower is a rate-based measurement of how quickly the engine can perform that work.

This pretty much sums it up as far as I can tell.

 

[Binder]

In this context, torque refers to the total amount of work that the 3406 engine can do, while horsepower is a rate-based measurement of how quickly the engine can perform that work.

This pretty much sums it up as far as I can tell.

What's the "context" it's referring too?...But basically I don't agree with the first part. Torque isn't a measure of how much work a engine can do. The second part is right that HP tells how quickly the engine can do the work.....

Getting deep again but given that you can have torque at zero RPM. Think about it, how much work can an engine do at zero RPM?

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

What's the "context" it's referring too?...But basically I don't agree with the first part. Torque isn't a measure of how much work a engine can do. The second part is right that HP tells how quickly the engine can do the work.....

Getting deep again but given that you can have torque at zero RPM. Think about it, how much work can an engine do at zero RPM?

This is the full quote. "Depending on its specifications, the 3406 engine can produce anywhere between 250 horsepower at 1,600 rpm and 550 horsepower at 2,100 rpm. It can produce between 1,000 pound-feet of torque at 1,200 rpm and 1,850 pound-feet of torque at 1,200 rpm. In this context, torque refers to the total amount of work that the 3406 engine can do, while horsepower is a rate-based measurement of how quickly the engine can perform that work."

An electric motor can and does generate all of it's torque from under 1 rpm a minute. That is as close to zero as it can get without being stalled.

 

[nowires]

So the race is on, car 1 has 500 HP and 525 ft pounds of torque and weighs 4000 pounds. Car 2 has 500 HP and 950 ft pounds of torque and weighs 4000 pounds

Car 2 will waste car 1 in a quarter mile

Torque will always win over HP in moving an object with equal parameters
This is why trains are electric over fuel, Industry uses low HP, low RPM, hi torque 3 phase electric motors

 

[LiftedZuki]

A motor with lots of HP and little torque, requires gearing to make it move better (my sami for instance, 60 hp at the flywheel, 75? ft lbs)

With stock gearing it sucks to drive with 33"s. I regear and it drives fine and does 70mph.

Why? The gearing gives me more torque.

Torque makes HP useful.

You have to have both, and one or the other for whatever purpose.

More torque for towing and grunt power, more hp for more wheelspin.

 

[jeffs_62]

So the race is on, car 1 has 500 HP and 525 ft pounds of torque and weighs 4000 pounds. Car 2 has 500 HP and 950 ft pounds of torque and weighs 4000 pounds

Car 2 will waste car 1 in a quarter mile

Torque will always win over HP in moving an object with equal parameters
This is why trains are electric over fuel, Industry uses low HP, low RPM, hi torque 3 phase electric motors

Not necessarily. These vehicles don't have equal parameters and the equation is not finished.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

Binder wants to turn the world with a longer breaker bar then me..