Carrier bearing caps

[NotMatt]

Hypothetical question... well not really. I've always been taught that bearing caps stay with the housing, and shouldn't ever be mixed and matched, and definitely should not be installed backwards or upside down.

I have a HP Ford D44 housing that is missing the bearing caps. I'm going to install some caps out of a junk chevy 44 housing, along with some used gears and probably used bearings. Is it going to catastrophically destroy the carrier bearings the minute I turn the carrier or what? I know the housing is line bored with the caps installed... if the bearing seats are lined up and there aren't any ridges where the caps meet the housing, I don't see how it can be an issue.

Anyone have any experience? This is going in the front of a rig that won't see much street use, and will not have any high speed street use with the front hubs locked in.

 

[Hip]

as a machinist speAKING THEY ARE LINE BORED AND MARKED SO THEY CANNOT BE MIXWD UP FOR A REASON. sorry cap lock...

i would not do it

 

[CHOP SHOP]

You might have to swap the caps back and forth and up and down a few times and feel the edge.

Also when you have and acceptable fit on the meeting edges then take a race and tap it in from the side and it should slide in about like installing a seal tension wise, maybe just a little easier.

Guys always bring me a bucket of toyota guts they tried to setup and gave up on and I have to figure out which bearing cap goes where. I always get it tho.

Your case is a little different tho. You are not using mixed up stockers. You are using the wrong **** on the wrong ****. You might have to try a few sets of caps on a dana/spicer axle. They dont seem to be as consistent as toyota machining. And you using a cap from a different style casting (hip/lop) so good luck and be patient.

 

[NotMatt]

You might have to swap the caps back and forth and up and down a few times and feel the edge.

Also when you have and acceptable fit on the meeting edges then take a race and tap it in from the side and it should slide in about like installing a seal tension wise, maybe just a little easier.

Guys always bring me a bucket of toyota guts they tried to setup and gave up on and I have to figure out which bearing cap goes where. I always get it tho.

Your case is a little different tho. You are not using mixed up stockers. You are using the wrong **** on the wrong ****. You might have to try a few sets of caps on a dana/spicer axle. They dont seem to be as consistent as toyota machining. And you using a cap from a different style casting (hip/lop) so good luck and be patient.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've got about 5 different sets of caps I can work with, but all from chevy low pinion axles and one wagoneer axle, so hopefully we can make something work. If not, I'll tell my buddy to stick with his original chevy D44 and D300 plan. This is budget building at it's finest. :redneck:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've got about 5 different sets of caps I can work with, so hopefully we can make something work. This is budget building at it's finest. :redneck:

You will be fine. At least you dont have to worry about spanner threads lining up on a d44.

The last one a guy brought me had been setup with the caps backwards and it left a nasty mark on the back of the race, almost an indent. It was run that way for a year or so. he brought me the new 5.29s and a install kit, not bearings just seal/shim kit. I could not see any visible wear pattern difference on the face/concave part of the race where the rollers wear and leave a polished worn footprint. It looked the same in all place around the race despite the cap/carrier fitment.

While I would not suggest the above situation as acceptable by any means it was working fine with no issues. It was with jap bearings in a toyota so thats what saved it.

Be nicer to the spicer.:beer:

 

[Roccrawler]

why you ask? your gonna do it anyhow :;

 

[Binder]

It's not "right" but for a front axle I would just line them up as Chop wrote and run it.:awesomework:

 

[Damnyankee]

on the dana stuff, its not AS bad as with toyota or other 3rd member type.
Reason for this is that the dana stuff is a cap, no more no less. as long as the tolerance is there.
BUT, on a toyota, 14bolt, 9" etc.. its more critical because the caps are bolted on, machined for diamter, and then. .threaded. if the thread starts in a different spot, it may not match as you turn in the adjuster.

my 2Cents

 

[Binder]

Reason for this is that the dana stuff is a cap, no more no less.

I'm a dork!:looser: That is all.

 

[Damnyankee]

Yeah that's it.

listen buddy,
If your going to be an ass about it, at least enlighten us to as to why i'm wrong.

and not a becauase your mommy told you, i want an engineering answer.:awesomework:

 

[NotMatt]

We're gonna go ahead with the plan, and I will post results when we get to the actual swap. This is going to be a bastard HP Ford axle with chevy knuckles and chevy 8 lug outters and stubs. And a nice pair of old school Warn hubs we got with the chevy axle.

Anyone got any used HP 44 4.10 gears?

 

[Binder]

listen buddy,
If your going to be an ass about it, at least enlighten us to as to why i'm wrong.

and not a becauase your mommy told you, i want an engineering answer.:awesomework:

Because my daddy told me.:haha:...Maybe you could enlighten us with an engineering answer why it's "crap"?

 

[crash2]

Diffs are line bored at the cap area like Hip said. But if you think about it there only purpose is to hold the bearing race.

One thing thats critical in this is the race staying fully seated against the edge of the bore that faces the pinion--thats all that matters. I have never had an issue on the few diffs I have done that had mismatched.

 

[Damnyankee]

Because my daddy told me.:haha:...Maybe you could enlighten us with an engineering answer why it's "crap"?

crap?

never used the word.

The way i see it, is that when the journals are line bored, the carrier bearing saddle is at the correct depth.
i.e. its were its going to be in relation to the pinion. IF you loose a cap you should be able to replace it. But I understand that its not that easy.

Say that that 1 is machined +.02 and another is machined .00 (use the + for further away from the pinion) If i put on the caps from teh .00 on the +.02, you stand a chance of crushing or deforming the bearing.(although i don't believe that that small of a difference is going to be an issue).
If you put it the other way around, the bearing race may spin inside the "saddle and cap" (for lack of a better word discription).

Changing the caps will not chance the position of the carrer at all. It MAY be too tight a fit or too loose a fit on the bearing race, but then again, all you need to do is check the actual diameter with the cap torqued down and see if it falls within specs.
Since i am NOT an auto engineer ( i work in a diffent field), i am speculating that the ID of the cap and saddle should be about -.001, to - .002 of the bearing OD to ensure clamp load without deformatin.
I can get conirmation on this if required.:beer:

 

[Binder]

crap?

never used the word.

:haha: I apologize! I misread what you first wrote. I thought you wrote that the Dana stuff was "crap".
Sorry man.:redface:

 

[zukkev]

I misread what you first wrote. I thought you wrote that the Dana stuff was "crap".
Sorry man.:redface:

:haha:.... and it's not even after 7!!!:eeek::hello:

 

[Damnyankee]

:haha: I apologize! I misread what you first wrote. I thought you wrote that the Dana stuff was "crap".
Sorry man.:redface:

It is, but i didn't say it this time... :fawkdancesmiley:

I run dana stuff, and no worries.

I have no issue with most of it, except the silly nissan stuff that is rediculously expensive.. I set of gears is nearly 500 bones.

 

[Hip]

crap?

never used the word.

The way i see it, is that when the journals are line bored, the carrier bearing saddle is at the correct depth.
i.e. its were its going to be in relation to the pinion. IF you loose a cap you should be able to replace it. But I understand that its not that easy.

Say that that 1 is machined +.02 and another is machined .00 (use the + for further away from the pinion) If i put on the caps from teh .00 on the +.02, you stand a chance of crushing or deforming the bearing.(although i don't believe that that small of a difference is going to be an issue).
If you put it the other way around, the bearing race may spin inside the "saddle and cap" (for lack of a better word discription).

Changing the caps will not chance the position of the carrer at all. It MAY be too tight a fit or too loose a fit on the bearing race, but then again, all you need to do is check the actual diameter with the cap torqued down and see if it falls within specs.
Since i am NOT an auto engineer ( i work in a diffent field), i am speculating that the ID of the cap and saddle should be about -.001, to - .002 of the bearing OD to ensure clamp load without deformatin.
I can get conirmation on this if required.:beer:

the part that will be offset is the relation of the bore to the bolt hole layout. so if this distance is off even .001 it will double the tightness of the bearing fit causing premature wear. bearing fit tolerance is plus or minus .001"

it takes .015" to feel with your fingernail. so if you can feel the edge on the bore with your fingernail you will be undersize by .030".

im not saying it wont work. they are all bored at the factory on a jig to repeat tolerances so you could get lucky....

if you are gonna do this i suggest getting an inside mic and measure from the cap to the housing in both directions at a horizontal angle and compare to the verticle measurement.

if within .001 good to go. kinda like this X l, compare X to l.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

it takes .015" to feel with your fingernail.

I have a Currie rock jock D60 center here and I can feel the edge with my fingernail where the caps meet the center on it and it is brand new, never had the caps off yet.

should I worry?

 

[Hip]

I have a Currie rock jock D60 center here and I can feel the edge with my fingernail where the caps meet the center on it and it is brand new, never had the caps off yet.

should I worry?

make sure its deburred.
if it were mine id do a through inspection.... are the caps match marked?

could they be swapped?

i definately would contact the MFR and at least document what you find....

should not be able to feel any gap at all when torqued together.

keeping in mind what it is being used for, a mis fit bearing will cause heat and eventually spauling of the hardened race material. once spauling starts the bearing will wear out soon. in a low mileage off road vehicle it does not usually see that much continued use to get that hot. like towing something on the hiway....front sees less heat than the rear...but for the amount of money a rock jock center section costs i would want it perfect.