evans creek issues

[Murkman]

What I've always wondered, is how is it that no one ever seems to see people doing this kind of stuff? We all seem to see the result but responsible individuals and the LEOs never seem to be able to catch anyone in the act.

You know I wonder the same thing. I had a situation this past weekend. It was past the stage I could do anything other than chastize whomever. The party's not involved but witnessed the inapproate behavior knew the perp (so to speak) yet would not identify him to me. I had to work it out myself and when I had it all figured out everyone (even the witness's who somewhat hindered the investigation) where told to change their behavior or not return.

Conversely I had a group that were caught redhanded. They were shown the error of their way's. Shown how to migigate the problem they caused. Given time to do so. And "WOW" did they go over and beyond to fix the damage they caused. They have even volunteered to be called upon in the future for scheduled work party's.

Go Figure. The first problem I explained above I thought would be the easy one. The second was the one I figured I would have a major denial. Just never works out the way you plan!

 

[Money Mark]

They have even volunteered to be called upon in the future for scheduled work party's.

Who is this? On the board? They should be made an example of......in a good way.
:awesomework::beer:

You can't be right until you're wrong.And whether "we" would admit it now, it's the progression of the wheeler's life.

I'd much rather hear these types of stories, than the other stories currently going around on the board.

 

[Murkman]

Who is this? On the board? They should be made an example of......in a good way.
:awesomework::beer:

You can't be right until you're wrong.And whether "we" would admit it now, it's the progression of the wheeler's life.

I'd much rather hear these types of stories, than the other stories currently going around on the board.

Neither group was a club. Of all offense's and such I have to respect the privacy of those involved. I need to respect all so that I may continue to (hopefully) recieve respect.

 

[AMJ]

LOL. I can think of atleast a few times the entrance has been repaired. Anyone remember the stump that used to be there? How about the dozer was brought in level it out?

I think some people need to come to realize the trail system is going to be maintained in away that keep run off to a minimum and erosion down.

 

[andyrewj]

I think some people need to come to realize the trail system is going to be maintained in away that keep run off to a minimum and erosion down.

Then why not just pave them? Oh wait, they pretty much have. We ran 311 this past week and it can now be done in any stock, open 4wd and in many 2wd trucks. It has been widened and filled in enough that I probably could have done most of it in my 2wd Suburban. The only obstacle left on the trail is at the very top where you can go left up the rock or right up through the trees. Based on the rest of the trail options being blocked off and the holes and hills filled and smoothed, I would guess the top is only still the same because they ran out of time, money or material. All the discussion of width and seasonal restrictions is really moot if the trials become just slightly rough forest service roads. Once all the trails look like 311 does now, who is going to bother going there to "wheel"? Another thing that you can file under the Law of Unintended Consequences: Most of the people involved in volunteer work have built trail rigs. We are the ones that put our time and money into our rigs and invest in the sport and the trails. When they turn Evans (or Naches or Elbe...) into a tail system not worth driving who will be left? Next thing you know they will just close it due to lack of use and resources. I am not against trail maintenance, it is necessary. However, I would not call filling in and removing all obstacles "maintenance" of a 4wd trail. Oh and while I am on a roll, I noticed that they removed pretty much all the trees that used to get rubbed on from the 311. Did they cut the trees down so that we would not kill them by rubbing up against them? First off, it is pretty unlikely that a tree will be killed by rubbing up against it on one side. Secondly, I think it is safe to say that all the trees that they cut down to "protect" are now in fact, well, ...uhm, DEAD. The root problem here (no tree pun intended) would seem to be a lack of basic common sense. But since we are talking about the federal government, I suppose that it would be bad for your health to hold your breath waiting for common sense to rule. (But look on the bright side, at least your health care will be free when you pass out.)

 

[japerry]

LOL. I can think of atleast a few times the entrance has been repaired. Anyone remember the stump that used to be there? How about the dozer was brought in level it out?

I think some people need to come to realize the trail system is going to be maintained in away that keep run off to a minimum and erosion down.

My issue is that to get 100% erosion and runoff down defeats the whole reason why I'm out there.

I want the trails to be soupy. Not a mud hole, but something where if I'm in 2wd, most likely I'm going to be spinning.

The erosion issue can be handled mainly by putting big rocks in, but that gets very expensive and time consuming. This works in spots, but for a whole trail its not a good answer. Unfortunately this usually means small rocks are put in, essentially paving it.

 

[billulsund]

Fortunately the 311 is not the only trail at Evans. They did similar things to the lower 520 and 198. Other trails out there are still tough, but they will probably see some changes too. Erosion is the main reason for the changes so they will be adding many more culverts in the future and will even be closing individual trails during periods of heavy rain. I am sorry Japerry, but if you like to wheel in the soupy stuff then Evans is probably not for you because it sounds like that is what they are trying to avoid. People are going to continue to wheel the 311 and as they do it will get tougher. Then several years from now they will fix it, and we will have this debate all over again. It is what it is and there is no point in bitching about stuff we have no control over.

What we do have control over is making some new, fun, challenging obstacles at Evans. At the last meeting Bob said that we can build some log and rock crawl obstacles at the big open areas off of the main roads. We just need to submit a written proposal of what we want to do first. I am going to focus on getting that stuff done and not worry about things I cannot change. The trails will get tougher again, just give it time.

 

[Damnyankee]

Fortunately the 311 is not the only trail at Evans. They did similar things to the lower 520 and 198. Other trails out there are still tough, but they will probably see some changes too. Erosion is the main reason for the changes so they will be adding many more culverts in the future and will even be closing individual trails during periods of heavy rain. I am sorry Japerry, but if you like to wheel in the soupy stuff then Evans is probably not for you because it sounds like that is what they are trying to avoid. People are going to continue to wheel the 311 and as they do it will get tougher. Then several years from now they will fix it, and we will have this debate all over again. It is what it is and there is no point in bitching about stuff we have no control over.

What we do have control over is making some new, fun, challenging obstacles at Evans. At the last meeting Bob said that we can build some log and rock crawl obstacles at the big open areas off of the main roads. We just need to submit a written proposal of what we want to do first. I am going to focus on getting that stuff done and not worry about things I cannot change. The trails will get tougher again, just give it time.

there are a few places that this would be nice, like on the left side of the road, just accros from the rock pit (don't remember the trail number)
there is a nice climb up and over for semi stock rigs.. and when there is snow on it, lots of fun.. But i was told that this is off limits.. i guess we could propose it hu?

 

[supsa]

And they want us to stay on the trail. What the hell 4. They are no fun anymore. So secret trails will happen. Everyone that drives to Evans see's all kinds of land to wheel on. And so they go there insted of dumb old easy evan's. I AM ONE OF THEM. Once they see how many new trails open up in that area they may think twice. Well maby not they do work for the fed.

 

[NotSoPC]

And they want us to stay on the trail. What the hell 4. They are no fun anymore. So secret trails will happen. Everyone that drives to Evans see's all kinds of land to wheel on. And so they go there insted of dumb old easy evan's. I AM ONE OF THEM. Once they see how many new trails open up in that area they may think twice. Well maby not they do work for the fed.

Kinda dumb dont ya think? If you and others like you start making other trails just cause you dont like the way they "fixed" the trail then all they will do is shut it all down. Then you can come on here and bitch about that:looser:

 

[crash2]

And they want us to stay on the trail. What the hell 4. They are no fun anymore. So secret trails will happen. Everyone that drives to Evans see's all kinds of land to wheel on. And so they go there insted of dumb old easy evan's. I AM ONE OF THEM. Once they see how many new trails open up in that area they may think twice. Well maby not they do work for the fed.

No--they will CLOSE it down.

If you want change then get involved--not sit on the net and bitch about it. We all know how that works--sit and bitch, not lift a finger till its too late--then sit and bitch about how its closed..

If you want change then get off your duff..

 

[Binder]

If you and others like you start making other trails just cause you dont like the way they "fixed" the trail then all they will do is shut it all down.

No--they will CLOSE it down...

Not necessarily.....It's like the saying "if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will own guns".....If wheeling is outlawed then outlaws will wheel...They need to understand that they cannot stop us from wheeling though they may try. A much better approach would be to work with us and come up with a more realistic solution.:;

 

[boardbysled]

Not necessarily.....It's like the saying "if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will own guns".....If wheeling is outlawed then outlaws will wheel...They need to understand that they cannot stop us from wheeling though they may try. A much better approach would be to work with us and come up with a more realistic solution.:;

:cheer:

And DNR has been working with us, now, Will the FS?:corn:

 

[Money Mark]

If you want change then get off your duff..

You're asking a bunch of back woods rednecks to put aside their differences and work with a federal agency, towards a common goal? :haha: Ludacris....that's a pipe dream.

 

[crash2]

You're asking a bunch of back woods rednecks to put aside their differences and work with a federal agency, towards a common goal? :haha: Ludacris....that's a pipe dream.

No--I am telling them.. Its reality.... The days of old are gone and only going to get worse...

 

[Money Mark]

The days of old are gone and only going to get worse...

Well sure, you (and I) know this......but when will they? And how and by whom will they be told, I wonder?

 

[Horus]

Supsa is not bitching, merely pointing out what is and will happen(img). 90% of all the wheelers I encounter weekend after weekend are not on any internet forums. If they are they have 2 or 5 posts in the three years since they registered. These individuals learn of the rules only through conversations with cops and other "informed" wheelers they meet. As many of you know law enforcement and tax payers did not get along around Evans for some time a couple years back. Anyone who has had a run-in with Dan The Terrorist knows exactly what I am talking about. He is gone now but the damage is done.

Bottom line is this. When we the "Informed" wheelers have our basic rights oppressed by a tax payer paid government servant holding a measuring tape and a ticket book we come here and "bitch" about it. This minority will then decide to be angry and rally the populace for change. On the other hand they my decide there is nothing they can do about it. They say defeatist garbage like "we either just do what they want or they'll shut us down" as they are bent over with a shovel turning Evans into a horse park.

The other 90% will have their first Dan run-in or hit the first FS cop road block in the Naches area where they burn tax payer dollars fighting tax payers and that's all they need. Next time they head out for a day of wheeling they take a few different roads and drive out into nowhere for 15 minutes until they find a washout, or a good place to enter the woods. Just like that a new trail is created. A few friends are let in on it and a couple years later these five or ten dudes have their own personal BYS, their secret.

These wheelers do not exist on this or any forum. All of these wheelers I have met around camp fires or on the trails in legal areas (the only kind I use, hence I bitch here.) One bad run in with enforcement, or FS rangers with width and mud flap laws and they are gone. They'll visit one of the three remaining legal ORV areas just to take a break from all the secret areas they wheel the rest of the year. If you wheel almost every weekend as I do, you will encounter these individuals. Anyone on here with a five digit post count will likely never speak to these wheelers. But let me make one thing clear. Their actions are Nothing more than the direct result of government intrusion into their lives. Their lives that for decades included wheelin public land, free.

 

[Money Mark]

Well said Horus. You speak the truth.:beer:

 

[crash2]

Supsa is not bitching, merely pointing out what is and will happen(img). 90% of all the wheelers I encounter weekend after weekend are not on any internet forums. If they are they have 2 or 5 posts in the three years since they registered. These individuals learn of the rules only through conversations with cops and other "informed" wheelers they meet. As many of you know law enforcement and tax payers did not get along around Evans for some time a couple years back. Anyone who has had a run-in with Dan The Terrorist knows exactly what I am talking about. He is gone now but the damage is done.

Bottom line is this. When we the "Informed" wheelers have our basic rights oppressed by a tax payer paid government servant holding a measuring tape and a ticket book we come here and "bitch" about it. This minority will then decide to be angry and rally the populace for change. On the other hand they my decide there is nothing they can do about it. They say defeatist garbage like "we either just do what they want or they'll shut us down" as they are bent over with a shovel turning Evans into a horse park.

The other 90% will have their first Dan run-in or hit the first FS cop road block in the Naches area where they burn tax payer dollars fighting tax payers and that's all they need. Next time they head out for a day of wheeling they take a few different roads and drive out into nowhere for 15 minutes until they find a washout, or a good place to enter the woods. Just like that a new trail is created. A few friends are let in on it and a couple years later these five or ten dudes have their own personal BYS, their secret.

These wheelers do not exist on this or any forum. All of these wheelers I have met around camp fires or on the trails in legal areas (the only kind I use, hence I bitch here.) One bad run in with enforcement, or FS rangers with width and mud flap laws and they are gone. They'll visit one of the three remaining legal ORV areas just to take a break from all the secret areas they wheel the rest of the year. If you wheel almost every weekend as I do, you will encounter these individuals. Anyone on here with a five digit post count will likely never speak to these wheelers. But let me make one thing clear. Their actions are Nothing more than the direct result of government intrusion into their lives. Their lives that for decades included wheelin public land, free.

Well said--but I still think he was bitching....:hi:

 

[pokey]

Not necessarily.....It's like the saying "if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will own guns".....If wheeling is outlawed then outlaws will wheel...They need to understand that they cannot stop us from wheeling though they may try. A much better approach would be to work with us and come up with a more realistic solution.:;

I agree and I have been trying my damndest to get that thru to them. Maybe after it happens this winter they will understand the cause and effect that I have been trying to get them to understand.