I need someone to finish building my buggy, but who?

[gubni]

I have a pretty awesome CJ that I have been wheeling for the last few years.

 

[InDaShop]

whats your budget? is it several K, or 10, or 20, or 30? And how much can you do yourself tools/skill wise, vs. hiring out. or do you hire out because of the time constraints?
You certainly cant argue with RedneckEngineered on just buying a new chassis from WideOpenDesign, or even dropping all parts on Woodlees door step. You'll definately get more value back that way.

 

[fl-krawler]

$55/hr shop rate x however long it takes

That is a pretty cheap labor rate. While I charge a flat fee for a lot of the things I do, custom work is $80/hr.. Reworks are $100/hr because you usually have to spend a considerable amount of time either removing old parts, or building something new that will work with the old, and still fix the problem.


While I agree it may be easier to start with a fresh, better thought out chassis, I'm not sure the OP wants to spend 5-6k on a chassis and not get much of his list addressed. Looking at his build, and looking at his list, I would say there was atleast 40hrs worth of work to be done, if not closer to 80 upon closer inspection to see what is salvageable, and what is not. A fresh chassis with everything remounted, fresh tins, and the OP's list satisfied would run about 15k at my shop. I would offer to take on the repair, but currently I have 4 turn key builds in front of any additional work I take on, unless of course the OP wants to wait till next summer.

 

[patooyee]

Why would reworks be any more per hour? Its all the same labor, just more of it for a rework. Just because its annoying having to fix someone else's mistakes?

 

[fl-krawler]

Why would reworks be any more per hour? Its all the same labor, just more of it for a rework. Just because its annoying having to fix someone else's mistakes?

Mostly. Its usually a bigger headache to try to "design" in a new part to work with some one else's design, i.e. the way you have to make the new part isn't as ideal or easy as it could have been. I have been bitten a few times on quoting a job, and finding out that to do mod "A", I have to do "B", "C", and "D" because the previous building didn't leave room. Some of those things can't be seen until you start building the new parts. Once I quote a price, I try to stick to it, even if I have to eat some time on it.

 

[InDaShop]

That is a pretty cheap labor rate. While I charge a flat fee for a lot of the things I do, custom work is $80/hr.. Reworks are $100/hr because you usually have to spend a considerable amount of time either removing old parts, or building something new that will work with the old, and still fix the problem.

Jimmys4x4 is $55/hour I believe. And I am having a go fast car built now, and am paying in that range at a very well known shop in Arizona.

FYI this car was built for $50/hr @ Penhall in SoCal.

 

[fl-krawler]

Jimmys4x4 is $55/hour I believe. And I am having a go fast car built now, and am paying in that range at a very well known shop in Arizona. FYI this car was built for $50/hr @ Penhall in SoCal.

Those are awesome rates by shops that do excellent work. Most of the jobs I charge a flat fee for are close to that in hourly rate, but for the custom one off stuff I can't afford to be that cheap unfortunately.

 

[FullMetalFabworks]

"Why would reworks be any more per hour? Its all the same labor, just more of it for a rework. Just because its annoying having to fix someone else's mistakes?"

I found this to be rather interesting as well . Wish I could charge different labor rates depending on how much fun the project is, $50/hr to weld , $75/hr to sand for the first hour and then it jumps to $100/hr after that when I am tired of it, and then $200/hr to pack any bearings. I like the sounds of that


"Jimmys4x4 is $55/hour I believe. And I am having a go fast car built now, and am paying in that range at a very well known shop in Arizona.

FYI this car was built for $50/hr @ Penhall in SoCal.
"

InDaShop, which AZ company is building you a car? Campbell Ent, TTF? Its cool if you don't want to say, just was curious and kind of hoping it might be EZ. Love that guys work and would like to see more of his rigs out wheeling.

On the Penhall car, was that "$50/hr" quote from Ben or directly from Penhall? I don't know for sure but I'd venture to say that they wouldn't build the same car for just anyone at that rate. I think that was a marketing move/ special rate (and a smart one IMHO) to build the most expensive ULTRA4 car to date for the generally likable and jolly Aussie with the funny accent that the cameras love to interview. He also happens to have a pretty respectable race history and they know that means good exposure for them in a new market and he'd still be campaigning it as a very capable 4wd Class1 in pure desert races as well.

 

[jlowry]

By looking at the welds on page 8 of your build by Hadfield no reputable shop is going to touch it. It sucks man, but that's just the truth. Too much liability for a real shop. Hope you get something figured out and on the trails in your buggy.


As far as increasing your rate to work on "reworks"??????????? We all agree that they take more time and so it's going to cost more money but seriously?? That statement couldn't have helped business>

 

[blacksheep10]

shop rate is shop rate unless I use a more expensive machine that costs me more in maintenance and consumables in my shop. I think for really short things I make way more per hour (because I'm bidding it not doing it T+M) On builds I just write down every hour that I work on it and what I did that day in a spreadsheet and keep track of parts and hardware, etc, then take my hours times my rate. For crawler fab that's $55-60, depending on if the guy is an asshole and already knows how to do it and tells me about it laughing1

 

[gubni]

whats your budget? is it several K, or 10, or 20, or 30? And how much can you do yourself tools/skill wise, vs. hiring out. or do you hire out because of the time constraints?
You certainly cant argue with RedneckEngineered on just buying a new chassis from WideOpenDesign, or even dropping all parts on Woodlees door step. You'll definately get more value back that way.

I have the tools and shop to do it, but not the time. I spend a day bending 2 tubes and putting them in while someone with experience does it in two hours and thought of a better way to do it.

I expect to pay $2000-$5000

 

[John Galbreath Jr.]

I think I understand why he has the different labor rates for quoting the job. He is giving a quoted price. Say it normally takes an hour to put in a brake pedal, and two hours to put on four coilovers. But, due to the re-build, he quotes at a higher labor rate. The brake pedal takes longer because the bracket has no place to attach, so he has to build something. The coilover brackets are too close together, now he has to cut it off, reposition, and replace. I did not get the idea he was charging more per minute actually worked, but rather using a higher labor rate during the quote process, to take into account unforseen problems.

 

[fl-krawler]

"Why would reworks be any more per hour? Its all the same labor, just more of it for a rework. Just because its annoying having to fix someone else's mistakes?"

I found this to be rather interesting as well . Wish I could charge different labor rates depending on how much fun the project is, $50/hr to weld , $75/hr to sand for the first hour and then it jumps to $100/hr after that when I am tired of it, and then $200/hr to pack any bearings. I like the sounds of that

"

As far as increasing your rate to work on "reworks"??????????? We all agree that they take more time and so it's going to cost more money but seriously?? That statement couldn't have helped business>

While I don't wish to derail the OP's thread any further, I'll address this once just to clarify. $100/hr is in line with what most other shops in the area charge for labor, no matter what it is. 50% of my business is redoing other shops screw ups. While there are shops everywhere around this area, the ones who are reputable are few and far between. The reason for the additional charge (And I am very up front with my customers about it) is because they will come to me with a project and want it built. I quote them @ my normal rate. They then counter with "insert shops name here" will do the job for half that cost. I tell them I am sorry but its the best price I can do, and they go to the other shop. Nine out of ten times, I either have to go get that customers vehicle from said shop to finish it, or I am redoing their handywork within a years time frame. Those are the customers that get charged the special "rework" rate (those or redo's that look like they are going to be a total clusterfuck to fix). Its pretty common for shops around here to charge different rates depending on what they are working on (i.e. diesel repair, bolt-ons, custom fab, etc) I'm nobody special, but I have a pretty good reputation locally with setting up suspension, and doing tube work, so much in fact that other shops often contact me to do work they have taken on. Like I said previously, I am very up front about my pricing, and when I quote a job, 99% of the time I stay with the quote, even if I lose money on the job.

 

[patooyee]

So the total quoted time would be the same, but on a re-work job the rate would be higher to account for any extra time beyond the quoted amount?

I'm not trying to call anyone out here. You can charge what you want. If you are making money and the customers are willing to pay it then its obviously working. I guess I'm just trying to understand better.

I have employees who do the same stuff and no one gets paid more than any others unless they can get more of that stuff done in less time. I don't really even give raises for quality of work because I consider quality of work a condition of employment. If your quality isn't what I want and you refuse to do better then why would I want you? The food industry probably shouldn't be compared to the fab industry though.

 

[fl-krawler]

I think I understand why he has the different labor rates for quoting the job. He is giving a quoted price. Say it normally takes an hour to put in a brake pedal, and two hours to put on four coilovers. But, due to the re-build, he quotes at a higher labor rate. The brake pedal takes longer because the bracket has no place to attach, so he has to build something. The coilover brackets are too close together, now he has to cut it off, reposition, and replace. I did not get the idea he was charging more per minute actually worked, but rather using a higher labor rate during the quote process, to take into account unforseen problems.

So the total quoted time would be the same, but on a re-work job the rate would be higher to account for any extra time beyond the quoted amount?

Yes that is also part of the deal. Also, I don't charge for shop consumables like grinding wheels, sawzall blades etc, and many times, while the rework doesn't take any more time than a normal build, it will use up a lot more consumables.

 

[muleskinner]

Angry Fab is an awesome guy to deal with and does awesome work hit him up on here or Facebook if you have an account.....his work is top notch and prices are really reasonable

 

[Patriot Customs]

Why would reworks be any more per hour? Its all the same labor, just more of it for a rework. Just because its annoying having to fix someone else's mistakes?

Great questions you have. I was wondering the same things. I am in the fabrication business and typically your shop rate includes all overhead and consumables. That is why its called "shop rate" and not "personal rate." We employ around 60 people at a coded vessel shop and our rate is $65/hr. Must be a really big business charging $80-100 an hour.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: I need someone to finish building my buggy, but who?

**** i would quote higher on rework, because re work ****ing sucks and cutting off hack fab **** and cleaning it up ****ing sucks, uses a lot of consumables, and gives you black boogers. And it sucks.

 

[Elliott]

I own a machine shop that does factory work and I can't even charge 100$ an hour.Im in the wrong business!!

 

[InDaShop]

InDaShop, which AZ company is building you a car? Campbell Ent, TTF? Its cool if you don't want to say, just was curious and kind of hoping it might be EZ. Love that guys work and would like to see more of his rigs out wheeling.

On the Penhall car, was that "$50/hr" quote from Ben or directly from Penhall? I don't know for sure but I'd venture to say that they wouldn't build the same car for just anyone at that rate. I think that was a marketing move/ special rate (and a smart one IMHO) to build the most expensive ULTRA4 car to date for the generally likable and jolly Aussie with the funny accent that the cameras love to interview. He also happens to have a pretty respectable race history and they know that means good exposure for them in a new market and he'd still be campaigning it as a very capable 4wd Class1 in pure desert races as well.

My car is just about done so everyone will see soon enough. Testing around Thanksgiving is the plan, been being built for over a year now.
As for Penhall quote, I have both a copy of Ben's invoice and a quote from Penhall. I shopped them when I was looking for a builder, Ben helped. That was their quoted shop rate. Now when it comes to full builds they don't quote them that way, its by slices/milestones of the job. Say $10k to build chassis, install all plumbing oil/trans/fuel/water/brake another $10k, etc...