Letter to DNR regarding Reiter and Walker

[japerry]

Received April 22nd, 2010

Peter Goldmark, Commissioner of Public Lands
Washington State Dept. of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 47000
Olympia, WA 98504-7000

Subject: Reiter Foothills ORV Use Area SEPA and Monitoring and Enforcement Issues

Dear Mr. Goldmark:

I represent the Pilchuck Audubon Society of Snohomish County and I have attended several focus groups and tours of the Reiter Foothills proposed ORV use area. At some of these meetings, I had been told by both DNR staff and representatives from various ORV groups what a good job that had been done with the trails at Walker Valley ORV use area and that I should view that site for a comparison with the proposed Reiter Foothills ORV use area.

I have now had an opportunity to view a portion of the Walker Valley ORV use area on two occasions. While there are some ORV trails that I wold term "show case", there are many more that I would term egregious violations that are described later in this letter.

As you know the Reiter Foothills ORV use area is current under SEPA review for its re-opening. Our observations on how the DNR operates and manages the Walker Valley ORV use area are critical o the SEPA determination to allow the re-opening of the Reiter Foothills to ORV use. As there are significant and unmitigated impacts currently occurring at the Walker VAlley ORV use area, it is our concern that these significant impacts will be repeated at the proposed Reiter Foothills ORV use area.

I also understand that Walker Valley has no had regualr monitoring by professional stream biologists and erosion and sediment control experts and that there are no reports whatsooever on these egregious violoations. Furthermore in discussions with DNR staff, they have been reticent to commit to a forma monitoring and reporting plan for the Reiter Foothills ORV use area, even though this is a requirement of Snohomish County Code.

We would like to arrange a meeting with you at a mutually agreeable time and place to discuss out primary concern:

If the DNR cannot properly operate and manage the ORV use areas it currently has such as Walker Valley, how can it be expected to manage the Reiter Foothills without significant environmental impact?

Please contact me so we may schedule this meeting and discuss our concerns. We have a power point presentation that will take approximately 30 minutes to view. We anticipate that the duration of this meeting will not last more than 1-1/2 hours.

This is a brief sampling of photographs that we would like to discuss with you when we meet.

Walker Valley Mainline Road around 6pm. Note that a campfire had been left unattended with flames still coming up. This campfire was not in designated fire pit area, but on the shoulder of the road, 27 Mar 2010.

Sediment observed in an un-named tributary of Walker Creek at the Walker Valley Main Line Road 27 Mar 2010

Sediment choking the un-named tributary of Walker Creek at the Walker Valley Main Line Road, 8-Apr-2010

Tons of sediment being delivered directly to the main stem Walker Creek and this trail is still open for ORV use without restriction. Note the totally overwhelmed silt fence, 8-Apr-2010

A designated DNR ORV trail constructed in a forest stream flowing water and still open for ORV use without restriction 8-Apr-2010

This ORV jump was constructed in a stream with the use of heavy equipment either by the DNR or with the knowledge of the DNR. Note culvert and bypass road on the left side of the photo 8-Apr-2010

In conclusion I wish to stress that the Pilchuck Audubon Society is not opposed to the re-opening a portion of the Reiter Foothills area for ORV use; however, it is opposed to re-opening Reiter without adequate and documented monitoring, maintenance, enforcement, and reporting plans. This also includes seasonal trail closures and/or total trail closures as required to prevent sediment delivery to streams. All significant impacts must be fully identified and mitigated through the SEPA process and meticulous engineering design.

Sincerely,

William (Bill) Lider, PE, CESCL
Principal Engineer

 

[dirtygoat]

This also includes seasonal trail closures and/or total trail closures as required to prevent sediment delivery to streams.

They are trying to close it during winter months...:eeek:

 

[japerry]

Draft response. Please comment and chime in...

Dear Mr Goldmark:

The off-road community has reviewed Mr. Lider's letter regarding Walker Valley, sent to your office on April 22nd, 2010. Our group takes considerable issue with most of the components of the letter.

The premise of the letter was as follows:

If the DNR cannot properly operate and manage the ORV use areas it currently has such as Walker Valley, how can it be expected to manage the Reiter Foothills without significant environmental impact?

We disagree with this statement. For the record, Walker Valley has a dedicated group of 30 people who attend advisory groups, work parties, and forest watch. Bill Lider has not once been to a Walker Valley advisory meeting in the past two years. Further, the people organizing Reiter is comprised of 30 to 50 totally different ORV users. We're in close communication with that group and when possible we help each other with work parties and organizing planning meetings.

We looked at the photos Mr. Lider posted in the letter, and found most of them we find to be taken out of context and have mitigating circumstances. Points:

1) The morning of April 8th was a fairly significant rain storm. Nearly .80" of rain was recorded at the nearby KWAMOUNT6 weather station a few miles away at Lake Cavanaugh. Walker Valley's geology is made up of a clay layer only within 6" of the forest floor. During rain events sediment will be noticeable in all creeks, which is not due to ORV use.
Similarly on March 26th, one day before the visit of the mainline road, there was 1.72" of rain recorded near Walker Valley. Again, sediment will be observed regardless of ORV use. Water running down a trail is not out of the ordinary during a rain event, nor is 'egregous' or a significant impact.

2) Walker Valley is the only legitimate ORV park in the DNR Northwest Region. Further, only 4 miles of 4x4 trail are designated within the park. Reiter had over 30 miles of 4x4 trail. Because of its closure, the thousands of people visiting Reiter are now at Walker Valley. According to attendance numbers gathered by Kim, the DNR enforcement officer until March 2010, Walker Valley was 200% of normal, having numbers close to large summer days in the middle of winter. Weekends that would see 30-50 ORVs are now seeing 150-200 ORVs. This has caused the trails to be inundated with use and hard to manage. The recent environmental damage happening at Walker is a direct correlation to the closure of Reiter. Closing trails is only causing the remaining trails to become environmentally unsustainable.

3) Mr. Lider observed a tank trap created by State lands to keep highway vehicles out of the ORV park in one of his photos. Over time these tank traps wore down and he believed they were jumps. Additionally, the water observed past the tank traps is not a stream, since it flows into the forest floor to the right of the photo, not meeting the requirements to be a Class IV or V stream. That said, we took the extra step a few years ago to put in a culvert and make the 'bypass' a main route so even a little bit of water would be avoided.

We respect and encourage the environmental community to work with us to make ORV parks sustainable on DNR land. We also believe sustainable parks require mileage of trail that is proportional to its use. Mr. Lider has shown in his letter that 4 miles is obviously insufficient for 70,000+ registered ORVs in NW Washington alone. His pictures of the silt fencing is a good example of why more mileage of trail is needed so less vehicles travel the same route, and with more miles potentially sensitive trails could be closed during rain events without compromising the integrity of the trail system.

Our worry with Mr. Lider is, instead of working with us, attending the focus groups, or helping us identify places to fix, he is interested in the politics of delaying the opening to Reiter and requiring funds for an 'expert' when one isn't really needed.

In regards to some of the issues noted, like the overran silt fence, we have looked at that issue and resolved that issue. We also looked at issues that Mr. Lider missed, with the youtube videos looking at these issues posted here:
http://rrr4x4.com/events/2010-05/walker-valley-dedication-and-walkthrough

The weekend immediately following the walk-through the ORV community came through and fixed most of the problems. You can see the writeup on our website:
http://rrr4x4.com/trips/walker-vall...ergency-remediation-saturday-may-22nd-results

And this isn't something new or out of the ordinary. Over the years we have been called out to haul hulks (abandoned vehicles by non-ORV users), attend monthly work parties on the 2nd Saturday of the month, and help educate new ORV users to the area about the rules of the park.

In light of Mr. Lider's letter, we believe more transparency is needed regarding the 'status' of Walker Valley. We need people in both the ORV and non-ORV community to know whats going on so letters like this don't occur again. Therefore, were launching a new website to be a focus point for everything Walker Valley at http://www.walkervalleyorv.com/
We hope that if your office receives any future communication regarding issues at Walker Valley, that you will forward them onto Jim Cahil and myself so we can organize work parties to take care of the issue.

Sincerely,

(Underwritten ORV users)

 

[dirtygoat]

Sounds good so far...:awesomework:

 

[dirtygoat]

Here is a little info about the sender of the first letter...

http://liderengineering.com/

 

[Money Mark]

However, Bill Lider has shown in his letter that he has no intention of working with the community, but rather slowing the process and keeping ORVs from having sufficient space for sustainable recreation.

He's a ****.:trollarse:

 

[Eric]

I would almost bet that he is just a front man with a title. I bet some other people are out getting the pictures and he is just writting the letter to use his credentials and their information.

Your letter is looking like a good start. Make sure to cite what you can. Think reasearch letter/paper. Cite the stream classifications and your observation of why it is not classified as such. If you dont have the knowlege background you need to make sure you get it right. Make sure your argument has ground to stand on. He has the professional background to throw alot of crap your way.


And I think Money has the right idea.

 

[NotSoPC]

I would almost bet that he is just a front man with a title. I bet some other people are out getting the pictures and he is just writting the letter to use his credentials and their information.

Your letter is looking like a good start. Make sure to cite what you can. Think reasearch letter/paper. Cite the stream classifications and your observation of why it is not classified as such. If you dont have the knowlege background you need to make sure you get it right. Make sure your argument has ground to stand on. He has the professional background to throw alot of crap your way.


And I think Money has the right idea.

Thats what I am thinking as well. All the trails have seen alot more use then they did and Walker is seeing the most. And pics of rain run off going down the trail? Really? When it rains it runs all over the road and down the streets so does that mean we should close the roads and streets? Rain run off will run were it can the easiest and that would be a trail. And by trail I mean 4x4, walking, biking, horse back, or even wild game. So I guess we should shut those down as well.

 

[crazybluerider1]

Judging from the web site, I bet this ass is trying to drum up business during a slow time. :hi:

 

[dirtygoat]

From the Reiter Focus Meeting on 3-24-2010...:eeek:

Bill Lider made several references to the fact that he was there to make sure the SEPA process was followed and was trying to catch DNR on any slip ups. He also had concerns over straw waddle being used as it might have noxious weeds.

 

[Duck Dodgers]

Judging from the web site, I bet this ass is trying to drum up business during a slow time. :hi:

:awesomework::awesomework::awesomework: You're not the first one to bring this up.....

 

[japerry]

Just talked to Mark Mauren at the commissioner's office. They are on our side. Mr Goldmark met with Bill and 'cut him off at the knees' citing the tank traps and water doesn't run horizontally down a trail (indicating it was obviously taken during a rain event). While I'm preaching to the choir sending this letter to them, they'd like to see photos and videos of our efforts last weekend.

Also, I'll be reaching out ot Mike Blackburg of the Audubon society per Mark's request. Hes indicated to me that Bill is just one member, and doesn't necissarly represent the will of the group. If the Audubon society was on our side, it'd be a great help!

Transparency is great, ain't it! :awesomework:

 

[dirtygoat]

This is one of the people that did the Reiter hike to show damage...

Here's an article about it... This guy doesn't like us and will continue to fight ORV use anywhere...

Article starts on the bottom of page 3 and continues on page 9...

http://pilchuckaudubon.org/userfiles/file/Profile_april_10.pdf

 

[crash2]

You got my vote :awesomework:

 

[pokey]

Jacob, are you keeping Arlene in the loop on these letters ?

 

[KarlVP]

It's just dirt.

 

[japerry]

Jacob, are you keeping Arlene in the loop on these letters ?

ohh good point I'll CC her in.

 

[Binder]

This guy is a assclown no doubt. We won't change his mind and he won't go away so we will have to stay on top of these issues he brings up. Fortunately most of the issues he brought up can be easily explained away which I believe hurts his credibility with the powers that be......I assume a SEPA and permit process was done to creat the trails at Walker? If so they know exactly where the streams are and said assclown just hurts his own case by stretching the truth. On that note however it's important that we don't stretch the tuth or make claims we can't back up...Your letter looks good to me Jacob.:awesomework: I think that there is a possibility however of the argument about Reiter being closed causing more taffic could backfire on us. If you proove to them Walker can't handle the traffic it has there's a chance the answer to that is temporary closure.

 

[japerry]

ahh interesting point Rick. I should point out that Walker can handle the traffic but its very hard to maintain (since there are so many vehicles in one spot). Luckily now that its summer, it'll be easier to maintain as there won't be as much silt going everwhere. Mark said there is no risk of Walker getting shut down, and that they appreciate what we're doing up there.

I don't think DNR knew the impact was going to be as profound as it was. We now need to take a more active role in documenting issue we see and organizing work parties to take care of them.

 

[boardbysled]

Looks like an awesome response letter!:awesomework: Very profesional, with lots of FACTS.:cheer:

Its also good to see this letter finally. My question is, does he actually represent the Audubon society, or is he using that as a cover?