New possible fuel tank rule

[Caddishack18]

Whata ya guys think about the new fuel tank rule for KOH? Sounds like we will be required to have a bladder. This rule really sucks for us moonbuggy guys or anyone who has a custom tanks to fit in our buggies. my tank is made up of 4 seprate compartments to keep the tank from twisting and cracking out due to chassis flex. I fought a cracking tank for a long time in the Caddi till I figured out how to mount the tank so it would "float". I mounted my tank for the Hammers on 3 rubber pads so there was no way to put the tank in a twist. Im looking at a spray on liner to coat the outside if the tank to create a flexable outer liner, not an inner liner. Kevlar can be mixed with the material to make it tough. Just looking for an option to provide a cheaper way to stay in the game.

 

[BamaTJ]

I feel like there will be more and more stupid rules like this given how the BLM is out there.

 

[P]

I think Jeff and Dave should be very careful about these rule changes and the bigger better faster longer. Guys are going to get tired of throwing money at this race every year and it will turn into the same group of local guys every year just like pretty much every other rock sport has. :****:

I mean hell for the past 10 years historically since rockcrawling got all "organized" very few "new drivers" have gotten the sponsership , the pay back, or anything out of it to stick. Its the same guys with the same big money ties doing the same thing every year. I think alot of that is because the evolving rules, and expense in "new rigs" every season to keep up. Then you throw "For One Race" every year into the mix such as KOH and hell man before long they will begging people to enter. The pitch for that nevada to cali or whatever 3 day race was laughable to me.

" Cmon guys here's your chance to qualify into next years KOH, it'll only cost you 2500 dollars to enter and youll be guarenteed a slot for '10 "

So yea, 3k to run the '10 KOH... and I heard more then one money is no object "racer" saying. Im just going to go across the start line and then Ill be in no matter what for '10

Is that racing ? Not in my opinion....

I got on a rant there ****... Yea I think they should look at tanks on an idividual basis and use sound judgement Sorry for the rant.

 

[P]

I feel like there will be more and more stupid rules like this given how the BLM is out there.

On that subject I think this race in its current format and location has a life expectancy of about 2 years max. :****:

 

[BamaTJ]

Yeah the JV situation is pretty bad. Plus, if the military wants it they will eventually get it. The rules/requirments were the biggest pita for us in 2009. I have a bunch of money in stuff that is only really used for this one race. Some of it is nice to have, but not needed except for this race. When I saw the fuel cell bladder piece I was like oh ****. My cell is just like Shirley's. Custom and baffled a bunch, I have no interest in cutting it open and modifying it. I loved the race, it was awesome, but I just can't be that racer guy and do it every year. Just don't have the desire to put all the time and money into it. I am glad to see the qualifying plan, that will hopefully keep it from being the buddy system and the same bunch of bra's every year. Then again, those guys will still get in somehow. I bet a lot of the big money teams will just buy there way in, hell it may even be cheaper than travel an entry fees to the qualifying races....

 

[Woodlee]

What the hell are you a bunch of ladies here. You may try pulling that thong off and trade for a less irritating granny pantie size. You guys are being

This fuel cell rule is very well NEEDED ! They have not even said what we will have to do but I am sure they will not make it unbearable. I have listened to enough people moan and complain about safety rules enough. People talked about $20 worth of ball valves was the end of the world, but I guarantee if you would have needed them to stop fuel from poring on your head it would have ben worth a lot more. I am not looking forward to doing the work that it is going to take to fix my cell to the way it should be. Notice I didn't just say pass tech I said to fix it the right way. Lets take this to the worst case scenario that very well could and has happen.

" A guy is rolling through the desert hits a wash out and starts going end over end and looses consciousness. He is up side down and the fuel cell is leaking on the exhaust and the driver. Then the fire ignites and consumes the driver before he even knew what happened, and the first person on the scene had to listen to a driver being burned to death. Then some has to make a call home to this guys family and tell his wife and kids that he is no longer with us"

It HAS happened before, and if they don't make a rule about it then it will happen again because the guys that race are just interested in making their rigs go fast, perform, and last be safe. Thats fact, and you can go to any local drag strip and see guys going to fast for what their car is rated at by the officials. It is all fun until some one dies. It is just the way racers are.

Every one wants to see the guys in this race pull off these crazy high mile and hour numbers but what happens when something goes wrong? There were a bunch of cracked fuel cells out there this year and the rule is needed. The last thing I want to do is get burned alive in my buggy.

You guys say what you want to but this race is growing. Dave and Jeff have worked there ass off for every racer that crossed the starting line. It has not even been a month after the race and the video trailer is out. For you guys that don't see the big picture it is so the racers and Hammer King can go after bigger sponsors. They did the hard part now it is up to you to make the rest happen.

In the end it is up to the racer to make the call if they can afford to race or not. It is also the call of the officials to make the race safe. The big part of racing is conforming to the rules. They are there for a reason.

 

[BamaTJ]

Adam, if I were in your shoes I would be all about this race. Let's see you are not married, you own your own fab shop and you want to be a racer. Some folks are in different situations than you and just cannot race and see all the new requirements as just more damn work for a once a year race. I would not know where to begin with the fuel tank mods. My cell is custom as hell an I have no access for a tig. My point is what seems like nothing to you, is a lot to most people. Not many folks have the tools, resources and experience that you have at your disposal. You definately have the upper hand in this race. I would love nothing more than to race the KOH circuit, just can't do it. I think Jeff and Dave are the hardest working promotors out there and I hope the race keeps growing. I am glad we got to be a part of it this year, I am sure it will keep getting crazier and crazier. To P's point the cost will soon put it out of the average joe's reach.

 

[P]

No one wants to see any one hurt, reality is on the fuel cell issue... they havent definatevly said what is or isnt going to be in place so I guess we should ease back and see what comes of it. I agree way to many broken fuel cell's and Bonney's rig burning to the ground was probably the most heartbreaking thing I saw the entire time in Cali.

Racing is racing, no one gets into it because its a good financial decision . I just think this particular race, and format is going to fizzle out because of the big picture expense. Its borderline as **** , and if you build a "desert car" then its more feasible to run desert races. The BLM, location and so forth arent hugely helpful but again, the desert guys have allotted land out there and have for years so maybe it will last. Its a cool venue and has great exposure , so I guess in that regard you get what you pay for.

PS Adam, who the hell did you know I had my party panties on today ??

 

[drycreekjeep]

you got 2 pay 2 play!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Woodlee]

It may knock out some people but so did NASCAR and NHRA. They want this to be the race for the best of the best.

I know I may be able to fix my tank easier than some, but it is crazy how some people will not put effort towards safety.

 

[BamaTJ]

It may knock out some people but so did NASCAR and NHRA. They want this to be the race for the best of the best.

I know I may be able to fix my tank easier than some, but it is crazy how some people will not put effort towards safety.

Lots of times best of the best means rich of the rich :****: You will always have the same group of well sponsored guys, or just those with the big trust funds where cost is no option. I think the cool part of the race in 09 is that the average joe could actually qualify and race, we are an example of that. That is super cool to me, I hope they keep that aspect of the race in perspective when considering future course changes and new safety requirments. It is cool knowing that you can qualify and compete with those big name, big sponsored teams.

 

[P]

Lord Overton, you can afford that **** you just choose not to !


( I dont fault you at all on that... between my big dream XRRA wannabe ass, and seeing the money and time required to do KOH first hand , you'll never see me fake the funk to be a racer again unless something huge came through. Its financially out of my league and Im OK with that )

 

[P]

Oh yea, and I LOVE and respect the trickled down influences we ALL as hobbist or whatever in this sport see from these types of races. the design, packaging , technological advances in parts and production pieces and materials used. It makes everything better and safer.

Look how much growing up ON the trail's has happened in that last couple of years. The sport is getting better from safety to design and vehicle building. I think its alot of structured race influence and good example's becoming more and more common place. We all win in that regard.

 

[Caddishack18]

Adam I'm not disagreeing with the need for safety. I'm just trying to get a cheaper solution for those of us that a bladder wont be an option for. I dont like where I had to put my tank so I did the best job I could do to make a tank that wouldnt give me any problems. I looked at building a sway bar mount that stuck out the rear of the buggy that also held a fuel tank, that didnt make much sense to me having a cell out where the car or someone else could crush it. I looked at having the cell above the motor, bad idea. I could have put it beside my head inside the car like Bender did Docs, yuck! or under my foot well where the rocks would kill it, besides 3 gallons max is all I could get. Im NOT making light of the awesome job Dave amd Jeff are doing. I've been trying to come up with a black and white rule to help solve this issue, I hate people who bitch and cant offer any ideas. I'm not that guy. I guess sooner or later each competitor will have to make there own decisions as to what lenghts they are willing to go to play the game. Rules like these are needed to protect promoters as well as the huge sponsors we all would love to have. I think a rubber/plastic/carbon fiber covered tank that is properly mounted should be an option, BUT there goes the problen with a judgement rule,,,,, someone has to OK it, if it fails and someone gets hurt, whos to blame??? I guess at the end of the day each racer need to be happy with the level they are competing at. This race may limit its own numbers by this. We all want to be a part of the big show!

 

[Woodlee]

Brian,

We talked about it on the phone and we both feel the same way about it. I am just waiting to see what we have to do to be covered before I get all stirred up about it. Look at every other form of motor sport and this rule was bound to happen. But like you I sure hope they don't take the freedom of building and having total control of pushing the limits of design and fabrication. I definitely don't want to have to hold back on that end becasue I have to match a curvy chassis to a square box.

 

[POPS58]

I might as well chime on in here too.I can tell you one thing that you can bet your last dollar on is "It's their race and they will run it the way they want to".I agree that safety is very important and Dave and Jeff will make good decisions,even with all the backlash they get on the web from any changes discussed.We have been doing the competition **** for going on 5 years and in that short time we've had to make some serious changes to cars or you don't compete.Ninty-nine percent of safety is preventave maintaince.I seen some of the biggest bull **** gas tank riggin I've ever seen at the KOH,looked like stacked bombs.I feel a well built and mounted tank will hold up to the worst abuse you could give it.We've had to fab the last couple and we put alot of thought into them to "what if this happened".I can see a simple soloution to the tanks by lining the inside with a fuel safe liquid that would mold to the inside.At the KOH I talked to about ten to twelve people that had the same thoughts on where the KOH is headed.All believe in a year or two it will be stricklly a big money big sponcer race and I believe that Jeff and Dave would not complain at all.I hope they can keep it based on what it started out as.There's lots of things that has happened that I don't agree with the way it all ended up as but I'm a nobody to complain about it.If anyone wants to say they were a part of this race you better do it next year because after that you can't afford it.We spent three grand going out and back not to mention a new trailer the week before we left.I know alot of you guys out there want to race and i can tell you you wont change what the leaders have in mind to do.It's their race and they will run it the way they want.I guess I've rattled on here enough and I'll shut the hell up now.By the way,I'm with Brian on the tank problems too.It's alot of work to fit and design a tank for a small compartment and keep it safe.Now with that said I don't know how many more trips we can make at 4400 miles for 4 quarts of Slime.


I could really let some chit go but I'm holdin back for now :****: :****:

 

[Caddishack18]

****!!!! I didnt even get the Slime. Their reasoning is two parts. First and foremost they dont want to get anyone killed at their event. Secondly a sponsor doesnt want a death at an event that has their name on it either.

 

[BamaTJ]

Pops, I agree with your post 100%! Well said. I am very glad we got to make the trip with you guys. We learned a lot about racing and wrenching from you and adam.

 

[POPS58]

It was a blast for a old bald man too.We enjoyed the week very much.Youns, we'uns and some other folks are forever indebted to four fellers from T-town for show to.See youn's on the next round.

 

[Caddishack18]

Talked to Dave last night as per his request to call him via a PM from Pirate. The entire phone call lasted exactly 2 minutes! I looked at my call timer when we were done. He asked me what I needed and I said "you asked me to call" we talked about mounting methods BREIFLY, and he said Jeff was working on the rules and he didnt know much what he has and he needed to go cause he was putting a transfer case together and needed to be ready this morning. TWO MINUTES! Oh well well see what they come up with for rules.