trail closures

WHITE TRASH1 · Apr 18, 2011

As I understand it you only need the the saw card if you are participating in an official FS cleanup. You are not allowed to use a saw if you have the card beings you fall under their umbrella insurance policy.

nate8887 · Apr 18, 2011

Boonie Buster said:
It is enforced. Regardless, I vote for seasonal closures.

The Kaner Flats Massacre should have been enough evidence as to this reasoning. And obviously the F.C. took it as such.

:awesomework::cheer:

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
So then should we have a rule, no wheeling on snow unless the whole trail is snow and at least 2 feet deep? By your reasoning some trails shouldn't be open until at least july as some of the higher elevations keep snow until then. Close them in early October as that's when the snow usually starts? So we wheel in August and Sept. Some wheel for the challenge of a difficult trail, there are no difficult trails in little naches/manastash in aug and sept.

Yes something like this...The trails could be closed on a case by case basis and would only need to be closed for a couple weeks each then opened back up. Say for instance snow starts lake October for Shoestring and melts again early May. Close it for the last week in October and the first week in November then open it again until snowmobile season. Same thing in the spring, close it last week of may and first week of July then open it back up....Maybe during these closed weeks we could do work parties so it's good to go once it opens?

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

Boonie Buster said:
Did you copy this from one of the other threads? I feel you've written this exact thing a couple times before.... Obviously it hasn't sunk in to most.........

I didn't copy it but I have said and written the same thing many times before....Glad someone is paying attention!:awesomework:

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
That's so they don't get run over by a group of wheelers and it isn't enforced.

It is enforced but as with everything there are only so many enforcers...

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
Some wheel for the challenge of a difficult trail, there are no difficult trails in little naches/manastash in aug and sept.

And BTW I only wheel to smell the prety flowers.:;

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

Also to shed a little light on current events it may help to know that the new Ranger for Naches is a woman who's favorite past time is taking pictures of flowers and crap like that....I'm guessing that running over the flowers doesn't rub her in her G spot.

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
Then you can walk.

Not much on sarcasm are you?....Just how new are you at this ****?:haha:

nate8887 · Apr 18, 2011

Binder said:
Not much on sarcasm are you?....Just how new are you at this ****?:haha:

Must have missed something? haha

Boonie Buster · Apr 18, 2011

This is taken from the Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance, an ORGANIZED, (key word there, something this group can't figure out) A group that is DOING something, instead of camping out at a keyboard saying "we need to ban to gether and fight the man!" Theyre actually getting things done. I for one will side with them any day of the week before i join a 4x4 club. They are organized. Their heads aren't in the clouds. If you want to "ban together", join this group, instead of making 16 other smaller ineffective groups that do nothing.

They got things done.

Naches Ranger District - Trail Closure Update

Many mountain bikers have expressed concern over the last few weeks about proposed seasonal trail closures within the Naches Ranger District and we want to provide you with an update.
Evergreen has been working with the Naches Ranger District on your behalf and has clearly communicated the concerns of our community and the science behind mountain bike impact on trail conditions. As a result, the Naches Ranger District has indicated to us that mountain bikes will not be subject to these seasonal trail closures.
We applaud the Forest Service for this significant decision which reaffirms their understanding that mountain biking is an activity which is most similar to hiking in its impact on trails. Evergreen will stay in communication with the Naches Ranger District on this issue and will keep you informed of new developments as they happen.

Binder · Apr 18, 2011

Boonie Buster said:
This is taken from the Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance, an ORGANIZED, (key word there, something this group can't figure out) A group that is DOING something, instead of camping out at a keyboard saying "we need to ban to gether and fight the man!"

Good for them!...And I bet they did it without protests or standing on the capitol steps.:awesomework:

whatthe? · Apr 18, 2011

Binder said:
Yes something like this...The trails could be closed on a case by case basis and would only need to be closed for a couple weeks each then opened back up. Say for instance snow starts lake October for Shoestring and melts again early May. Close it for the last week in October and the first week in November then open it again until snowmobile season. Same thing in the spring, close it last week of may and first week of July then open it back up....Maybe during these closed weeks we could do work parties so it's good to go once it opens?

How in the world do you enforce this? They can't even stop someone from off trail mudding when they know the place and time each year. The logistical issues with individual trail opening/closing is beyond the FS. They want blanket open and close dates. They do it with snoparks, we'll be no different. Your idea is one of the more reasonable ones IF you support seasonal closures but I dont think the FS could do it well. Plus if they try closing trails in the fall, they'll have a hell of a fight on their hands with hunters, a much bigger, richer group than wheelers. I get your sarcasm but apparently you don't get mine. Doing this too long?:kiss:

nate8887 · Apr 18, 2011

How did they do it? Boonie you have any conections with thier guys on the ground doing the work? There was something along the lines of they "communicated the concerns of our community and the science behind mountain bike impact on trail conditions." What did they do scientifically? Who was thier scientist?

nate8887 · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
How in the world do you enforce this? They can't even stop someone from off trail mudding when they know the place and time each year. The logistical issues with individual trail opening/closing is beyond the FS. They want blanket open and close dates. They do it with snoparks, we'll be no different. Your idea is one of the more reasonable ones IF you support seasonal closures but I dont think the FS could do it well. Plus if they try closing trails in the fall, they'll have a hell of a fight on their hands with hunters, a much bigger, richer group than wheelers. I get your sarcasm but apparently you don't get mine. Doing this too long?:kiss:

Earlier you said the F.S. doesnt have anything to do and know your saying they cant handle a relitively easy system that goes hand in hand with thier responsibilities to the public.

whatthe? · Apr 18, 2011

They have a huge chip in their favor, lack of internal combustion. That's what the FS wants out of the woods.

pokey · Apr 18, 2011

nate8887 said:
But to answer the O.P. question I think working with the F.S./D.N.R to Make two trails or a "Winter Bypass" through problem areas may be a good idea.

You have your summer trail "softer area" that would be used in the summer and winter trail "More Hardpan/firm area" This would alleviate damage and allow nature to "Heal".

We would have to figure out a way to block these alternate routes effectively but im sure there is a genious somewhere in this group that could figure it out.

FS does not allow bypasses like the DNR does. The trail has to stay in its original two tracks as it was made.

This is a qoute from one of the FS folks that I work with.

"Bypass's on the National Forest are prohibited. The ATV/4x4 trail may only be a single two track thru the forest. It must remain with in its orginal track as much is possible. This differs from the DNR quite a bit."

Boonie Buster · Apr 18, 2011

whatthe? said:
That's what the FS wants out of the woods.

^^^Lies.^^^

http://www.fs.fed.us/aboutus/meetfs.shtml

National forests are America's great outdoors. They encompass 193 million acres (aprox. 78 million hectares) of land, which is an area equivalent to the size of Texas. National forests provide opportunities for recreation in open spaces and natural environments. With more and more people living in urban areas, national forests are becoming more important and valuable to Americans. People enjoy a wide variety of activities on national forests, including backpacking in remote, unroaded wilderness areas, mastering an all-terrain vehicle over a challenging trail, enjoying the views along a scenic byway, or fishing in a great trout stream, to mention just a few.

nate8887 · Apr 18, 2011

pokey said:
FS does not allow bypasses like the DNR does. The trail has to stay in its original two tracks as it was made.

This is a qoute from one of the FS folks that I work with.

"Bypass's on the National Forest are prohibited. The ATV/4x4 trail may only be a single two track thru the forest. It must remain with in its orginal track as much is possible. This differs from the DNR quite a bit."

But if it is an alternate route and the other route is closed during the off season it would not be a bypass but an origanal trail? Something to think about and maybe me and you can discuss thursday if I can make it to the meeting?

Boonie Buster · Apr 18, 2011

nate8887 said:
How did they do it? Boonie you have any conections with thier guys on the ground doing the work? There was something along the lines of they "communicated the concerns of our community and the science behind mountain bike impact on trail conditions." What did they do scientifically? Who was thier scientist?

I've talked to a few in passing, but never gotten to a point of "connections". :booo: