trails disscusion

[Gibby1]

Too Bad? :eeek: If it wasn't torn up it would be as lame as the rest of the trails at Elbe. You never see a thread talking about the Easy Wild, Gotcha, or Rainier Vista :haha:

I agree with Jaydog, not that the other trails are necessarily lame, just suited for a different crowd.

I ran mainline, Alder Loop and the Easywild at the last work party. No, they're not hard but they can still be fun for when you don't want to beat the crap out of your rig and just enjoy a day of wheelin' with your friends.

I don't like the busy in the winter as I still have body on my rig but I love it when it's a little drier. I'm pretty lazy at getting the mud washed off

 

[Brian H]

Last saturday the busy was very easy ,less muddy, compared to the weekend before it took us about 45 minutes with no winching to run it and we werent taking the easy lines. we passed you guys eatin lunch in the bottom of the busy.

Pics or it didnt happen!!!!!:stirpot:

 

[deerlick]

here brian

 

[deerlick]

and some of ur old sami from elbe

 

[deerlick]

and some more sorry for the hijack

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Last saturday the busy was very easy ,less muddy, compared to the weekend before it took us about 45 minutes with no winching to run it and we werent taking the easy lines. we passed you guys eatin lunch in the bottom of the busy.

its hard to take pics when your not crawlin, huh?:cheer:

is that a twelve blot in that sami?:corn:

 

[deerlick]

sure is brad... stole it from some guy in kapowsin:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

sure is brad... stole it from some guy in kapowsin:fawkdancesmiley:

be careful thats a bad areauke:

 

[dirtygoat]

The Busy should be closed down...





























That's the only way to keep the big guys out of there...:fawkdancesmiley:

 

[Gibby1]

FYI, for educational purposes... on that pic where a guy is driving up the stump, that is technically driving off the trail since it's clearly outside the trail corridor. I can see the actual trail on the picture and the vehicle is completely off the trail.

This is a no-brainer on that shot that the vehicle is clearly off the trail so you can't use the excuse that you didn't know that it was off the trail. You can GET a ticket for that now for 2 reasons. 1) the vehicle is clearly not within the trail corridor and is willingly doing environmental damage. It's one thing to go off the trail to recover a vehicle or deal with other unavoidable situations, but this is clearly an intentional action. It doesn't even matter if there was no tire spin, the DNR can site simple soil compaction damage and habitat damage to the bugs that live in the rotten tree stump. It's not that I agree with them, just explaining what can happen so that someone doesn't get in trouble in the future.

Now I'm not beating up on anyone here, I just want to point it out as we all frequently do stuff like this, because it's fun, however it's not an acceptable practice. I will bet the 90% of the people looking at that wouldn't even realize that they can be ticketed for doing what was done in that picture.

 

[Gibby1]

I dont know about "legendary" The busy has always been a harder trail but up until about 5 or so years ago a good driver with lockers and a winch would have no problem running the trail on 33s its just been in the last few years that the holes have gotten so deep and so long that its almost impassable to those who built it and maintained it for so long. I can only hope that those same people that have turned it into what it is will continue with maintaining it. because the old timers are pretty much done with it:booo:

From the looks of the last 3-4 work parties, the old-timers have pretty much given up on all of Elbe. You are right... I hope the guys who are using the busy are the same guys that are maintaining it. At the next work party, I think the busy is going to be a focus point so I would expect to see a lot of people out there in buggies (or other big tire'd rigs) working on that trail at the next work party.

 

[Gaylord]

I'll stir the pot a little more. Why does some ****in ass hat always have to get off the trail and climb a ****in stump? Does it make them feel cool? Because IMHO it makes them look real stupid.

 

[Horus]

Legendary might be a strong word. It just seems like every time I bring up the Busy everyone snaps back with something to the effect of " Stay off the Busy." With a laugh they usually indicate that I probably don't want that kind of trouble. I only know what I've seen of it in photos online.

I've heard it is always a wet and muddy trail year round but does it get any better in the summer?

 

[Horus]

I've was screwed out the last two work parties at Elbe ( I've only been there once.)

When the next one comes up I'm not letting anything stop me. Putting in a good days work on that trail would be well worth it even just to see the trail before I put my rig through it.

 

[pokey]

Legendary might be a strong word. It just seems like every time I bring up the Busy everyone snaps back with something to the effect of " Stay off the Busy." With a laugh they usually indicate that I probably don't want that kind of trouble. I only know what I've seen of it in photos online.

I've heard it is always a wet and muddy trail year round but does it get any better in the summer?

Yes it gets easier when dry but the holes are still deep and the stumps just as hungry. Its just dryer.

 

[Gibby1]

Legendary might be a strong word. It just seems like every time I bring up the Busy everyone snaps back with something to the effect of " Stay off the Busy." With a laugh they usually indicate that I probably don't want that kind of trouble. I only know what I've seen of it in photos online.

I've heard it is always a wet and muddy trail year round but does it get any better in the summer?

Yes, it DOES get better but it's still a trail that requires a VERY well built rig. Even over the last 2-3 years it's changed a LOT.

 

[Travis1]

I dont know about "legendary" The busy has always been a harder trail but up until about 5 or so years ago a good driver with lockers and a winch would have no problem running the trail on 33s its just been in the last few years that the holes have gotten so deep and so long that its almost impassable to those who built it and maintained it for so long. I can only hope that those same people that have turned it into what it is will continue with maintaining it. because the old timers are pretty much done with it:booo:

Warning, unpopular opinion ahead:

There's so much truth to that. Over 8 years, here's the overwhelming majority of what I've seen.

Those with 33's and maybe even a rare 35 built a lot of the trail system out there; back then 31's were even commonplace. Then the rigs with 38+" tires started showing up in droves in the last 5-6 years and tear the living crap out of a trail making it suitable for them.

This then leaves the guys on smaller tires looking for new trail to maintain because they can't play on their old trail anymore. The little guys get pissy because their years of hard work are now gone and they can't really play on what they have maintained for many years. The guys running big tires complain because everything else is "too easy".

Areas like this, are not like Reiter at all. There is a long history there and when one user group essentially kicks a pre-existing user group out a LOT of animosity is created. 8 years of watching this go on has shown me there is a great divide within the wheeling community. One that needs to be repaired, and one that will likely require the big tire owners to extend the olive branch on. At the same time the older crowd or little guys need to be a LOT more reseptive of the newer crowd.

As for the Busy, hopefully the guys running bigger tires maintain what they "created".

EDIT: I'm one of those guys running 38.5's. But everyone else I run with runs 31's to 35's. It would have been nice if the majority of them (33 on up) could have ran the Busy - which they could have a meer 5 years ago. As it stands I'm the only rig narrow enough with large enough tires to make it through.

 

[Horus]

I really like trails that have areas down their length that open up and have lines for lesser equipped rigs, medium duty rigs and the crazy line for the buggy guys. Often I hear about people building bypasses to get around parts of the trail they aren't built enough for and I agree that at large the practice should be stopped. Blocking illegal bypasses is really all we did on Cable the last work party there.

That said, how many trails do we have that have legal bypasses? For example. Evans creek at the top of the lower 311 on 'Brake line hill' you have basically three ways to get up. A diverse group of rigs can pick whatever line they are comfortable with and everyone has fun. Seems to me if we were able to build a larger trail with obstacles from mild to wild then more diverse groups can go wheelin together. This would bridge the gap somewhat I think.

The rock garden at Reiter trails is a decent example. The buggies are happy and so are the guys on 32s because they can drive through it.

BTW I'm not suggesting we add bypasses all over Busy or BYS or anything. Just pointing out the general lack of trails where if you go straight it's easy, to the left it's moderate and to the right is the buggy line. Everyone in the group can still make the trail.

Am I wrong about this?

:corn:

 

[Gaylord]

Warning, unpopular opinion ahead:

There's so much truth to that. Over 8 years, here's the overwhelming majority of what I've seen.

Those with 33's and maybe even a rare 35 built a lot of the trail system out there; back then 31's were even commonplace. Then the rigs with 38+" tires started showing up in droves in the last 5-6 years and tear the living crap out of a trail making it suitable for them.

This then leaves the guys on smaller tires looking for new trail to maintain because they can't play on their old trail anymore. The little guys get pissy because their years of hard work are now gone and they can't really play on what they have maintained for many years. The guys running big tires complain because everything else is "too easy".

Areas like this, are not like Reiter at all. There is a long history there and when one user group essentially kicks a pre-existing user group out a LOT of animosity is created. 8 years of watching this go on has shown me there is a great divide within the wheeling community. One that needs to be repaired, and one that will likely require the big tire owners to extend the olive branch on. At the same time the older crowd or little guys need to be a LOT more reseptive of the newer crowd.

As for the Busy, hopefully the guys running bigger tires maintain what they "created".

EDIT: I'm one of those guys running 38.5's. But everyone else I run with runs 31's to 35's. It would have been nice if the majority of them (33 on up) could have ran the Busy - which they could have a meer 5 years ago. As it stands I'm the only rig narrow enough with large enough tires to make it through.

It's a good post and I agree for the most part. I would argue however why does the "older smaller tire crowd" have to pay respect to these big tire idiots that ruin our trails? 10 years ago there was not a trail in Washington you could not run on a 33 or 35 with exception to some nasty mud holes here and there. Then the California rock crawling crazy began and all the rags had photos and articles about these behemoth monsters and everyone up here followed suit. There was no reason to follow suit a guy could go run Liberty,Rimrock, nachees ect ect on 35's locked no problem. But this younger crowd just had to build them bigger anyway. Once these rigs were built there was no were for them to play because they were too overbuilt. So what did they do? They went and destroyed our Jeep trails that have been passable for 50 years in the same fashion. I don't get it. I am bitter about it and I think I always will be. The selfish needs of the few have ruined the trails for the many.

 

[Gibby1]

That said, how many trails do we have that have legal bypasses? For example. Evans creek at the top of the lower 311 on 'Brake line hill' you have basically three ways to get up. A

Am I wrong about this?

:corn:

You don't actually have 3 ways to get up "brakeline hill. The right side is a relatively BRAND new illegal user built bypass. The original line and still the only legal line I believe is the far left side. The middle line (the rocky climb) is also a user built bypass I believe. I may have those two backwards.

A few years ago I did a ride-along on that trail with the park ranger in my rig. She clarified a LOT of parts of the trail that we thought we just various lines, were in fact illegal routes to take. I spent some time with her complaining that there's no way to know because the trail corridors are NOT marked.

The new right side line is an obvious no no but who would have known that only the left side line was the only legal portion of the trail?

I may get corrected on whether it was the left or middle line that was the legal line - it was a few years ago and I'm old...

However, I am in strong agreement with legal bypasses and Elbe is moving in this direction. Our club worked on the Easywild at the last work party. Following the direction from the DNR, we remarked the entire trail to define the trail corridor. We were able to allow as many of the obvious long term lines to be kept within the trail corridor. We also included some bypasses around more difficult areas that were not only easy but ATV friendly. At the hill climb area of that trail, we kept all lines going up the hill and included them in the trail corridor, but we blocked off off-shoots that had no value at all. We blocked off quite a few illegal entrances to the trail and bypasses where people just decided to go for a run through the trees.

The Dogpound did similar markings on the Swamp Trail.

Better signage will help everyone know where they can and cannot go and then don't complain when the get a ticket for going outside the trail corridor...

Last fall, under the direction of the DNR, we built an entirely new bypass on the busy to go around the deep mud hole section. This summer that bypass will get hardened some to prevent it from eroding into just another trail. Where feasible, you'll see more and more of this at Elbe.

At the last work party, our club also worked on a bypass on the mainline. It was just a water hole but the DNR asked us to MAKE a bypass around the water hole and specified that it must be full size AND ATV friendly.