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What do you think?

money_pit_yj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
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Location
Collierville, Tn
The diversity of Hardline has always been cool to me. As far as beliefs, it is probably the most diverse group I know. Being around so many different personalities and various viewpoints on God and religion and Christianity has challenged me to grow in my walk so that I may more effectively lead my ministry and reach people with the Gospel. I was not raised in a Christian home. We went to church occasionally and did all the things you were supposed to do, but I did not get saved until college, and didn't really understand much about who God is until my late twenties as I started growing closer to him. Obviously my view and belief of who God is has radically changed over the past 35 years. So that brings me to my question: What do you think of God? In your mind what or who is He? Is He anything? Do you even believe there is a God? Has HE had an impact on your life? Do you even care?

I know this is a powder keg and can get down right nasty, so let's try and keep it respectful and civil. I feel like there are enough folks on here we can have a cool discussion........
 
Re:

This does have the ability to go crazy right off the bat, so I offer up some thoughts.

Never deal in absolutes, always use your "God given" abilities to think for yourself and never dig your heels in.....you might just learn something from a fascist, atheist, Buddhist or a Muslim.

There is a higher power in my opinion, but this book or that book, this religion or that religion, does not make good people. There are shitty Catholics, Muslims, Baptists and shitty atheists too. There are also good ones of each denomination and possibly some atheists are better people than people that call themselves Christians.

Do good things, have principles you stand for and I think no matter which direction you go, it will be the right one.

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
 
Re:

lowbudgetjunk said:
This does have the ability to go crazy right off the bat, so I offer up some thoughts.

Never deal in absolutes, always use your "God given" abilities to think for yourself and never dig your heels in.....you might just learn something from a fascist, atheist, Buddhist or a Muslim.

There is a higher power in my opinion, but this book or that book, this religion or that religion, does not make good people. There are shitty Catholics, Muslims, Baptists and shitty atheists too. There are also good ones of each denomination and possibly some atheists are better people than people that call themselves Christians.

Do good things, have principles you stand for and I think no matter which direction you go, it will be the right one.

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk

Why are we the only two posting Kel? :rolf:
 
I'm in. I believe in a one true God. I believe we are ultimately responsible for how we represent what we believe to others. I believe our choices/actions play a YUUUGE (sorry, went all New Jersey for a second) part of our lives, both here and after this life. I believe in never saying never, about anyone or anything. I believe in respecting others beliefs as long as they respect mine. Years ago I believe I was a Christian a-hole about some issues. Now I believe lots of issues are not for me to judge, but are between the person and their conscience. As of right now, I believe I'll live my life in a way that tries to offer hope, friendship and understanding to the people I meet on a daily basis and if they see some thing in me that intrigues them, I hope they ask.


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Re:

money_pit_yj said:
Why are we the only two posting Kel? :rolf:
Maybe cause the rest of us have jobs to do between 8 and 5? ;D

I'm interested to see where this thread goes, I'll share my opinion. I believe that the only wayto the father is through Jesus Christ and no amount of "good deeds" will get you there without Christ. Unfortunately I dont do a good enough job sharing my beliefs with my friends.

I also believe God is much more than I can possibly comprehend. It was best explained to me by Francis Chan's book "crazy love" (I recommend it to any readers out there). In the book Chan says:

"Not being able to fully understand God is frustrating but it is ridiculous for us to think we have the right to limit God to something we are capable of comprehending. What a stunted, insignificant god that would be! If my mind is the size of a soda can and God is the size of all the oceans, it would be stupid for me to say He is only the small amount of water I can scoop into my little can. God is so much bigger, so far beyond our time-encased, air/food/sleep-dependent lives."

Its a very good visual explaination for how little of God we are able to comprehend and how much more there is to God than we know. When its put into those terms I'd say I'm not sure about much of anything except HE IS REAL and one day all will bow down to Him.
 
Re:

lowbudgetjunk said:
This does have the ability to go crazy right off the bat, so I offer up some thoughts.

Never deal in absolutes, always use your "God given" abilities to think for yourself and never dig your heels in.....you might just learn something from a fascist, atheist, Buddhist or a Muslim.

There is a higher power in my opinion, but this book or that book, this religion or that religion, does not make good people. There are shitty Catholics, Muslims, Baptists and shitty atheists too. There are also good ones of each denomination and possibly some atheists are better people than people that call themselves Christians.

Do good things, have principles you stand for and I think no matter which direction you go, it will be the right one.

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk

Pretty closely sums up my views/opinions as well. I grew up in church, southern baptist, active youth, etc. I quit going when I moved out on my own at 22. Probably would have quit going earlier than that if it weren't for mom waking me up every Sunday morning at 8-9am after I had been out partying all night and only had about 4-5 hrs of sleep at that time. Lots of times I sat in church on the end, trying to breathe away from my dad so he wouldn't smell the alcohol still on my breath....shitty, I know. Fun Saturday nights were my priority back then.

I question everything much more in depth the older I get. I still, all the time, contemplate religion, its legitimacy, the ins and outs of it all. One question I cannot answer is if there are so many religions all over the world, why is Christianity any different? What makes it the right one? These are hypothetical questions. You can always refer me to various scriptures, but these scriptures are from a book. Many religions have a book, as greatly relied upon as Christianity. There are far more hardcore followers of other religions than there are Christianity. With Christianity, there's a fairy tale answer for everything. "Well it's just God's plan." or but why was he/she taken early from us?? "God had a better plan for them." or one personally heard numerous times basically saying the only reason I survived my motorcycle wreck is because God was watching over me. Why was he still watching over me after I quit going to church basically because I had rather stay out all night and party? Why was it that he was watching over me and not the next person that was killed in an accident or take by way of cancer, especially when they were Christians who seemed to live the life and were still taken early. Those sayings do not make sense to me, I can't stand when people say those things because there isn't any consistency regarding the matter at all.

I've also touched on this before, but there is so much hypocrisy in the churches, especially southern Baptists - you know, those ole backslidden baptists - that even if I was to be a self proclaimed Christian, I'm not sure I'd still attend church. I'd probably choose to have "church" at home in my quiet time if that were the case. I grew up in 2 different churches, nothing really happened in the first one other than the ranks of popularity - snooty members, but the 2nd and last church I was an active member of had numerous negative things go down. And I'm not talking small backwoods church, 2nd if not the biggest church in town. When I was in the youth, our youth minister got caught beating the brakes off the church secretary in his office one day during the week, while his house was literally next door to the church, where his wife and two young kids lived with him. The bigger thing, our long time pastor and pillar of the community got caught laundering money from the offering to pay for **** and build on to his house. Once they found out, they gave him one last time to preach and opted to keep things quiet but he had to go after that last service. It leaked, everyone found out quickly, I attended his last service where he cried at the pulpit as he shouted that GOD HAD A DIFFERENT PLAN for him and his family, and that he was called to preach at some church in Georgia, several hours away now. They started that service by taking up offering, after the choir sang the first half of the service, they took up offering a 2nd time, after his sermon was given along with the benediction prayer, offering plates were passed around a 3rd time. Never had that happened before. I assume that was the pastors vile attempt at paying the church back some for the money he stole.

At this point, I don't rule out the existence of a higher power, but I don't think it is the image of the big man in the sky most like to think of, or are brought up picturing. Jesus Christ, the son of God, was sent to spread the word during his time lived on Earth, then was to die on the cross alongside 2 other men so that we can forever be forgiven of our sins, no matter how great a sin it may be, so long as we place our faith in Him. That sounds great, almost too great. I have zero problem with anyone that believes it to the fullest, I once did before I began questioning things, because that's just what I was brought up to believe. If Christ died a fuzz over 2k years ago and you must believe in Christ and be saved by your faith in Him, what happened to all the humans that died before Christ was born and old enough to spread the Gospel? What happens to the people in the far corners of the world that never hear about Him? There are many other monotheistic religions out there that, with personal bias removed, make just as much sense as Christianity. Why is Christianity any different? Do we really die and go to one of two places - Heaven where all of our wildest dreams come true (meant for humor, not mockery) and all of our deceased relatives are waiting to greet us at the pearly gates, or Hades where one is sent to endure an eternal life full of suffering worse than anything in the Nazi concentration camps or that has ever taken place on Earth.

I'm not discrediting any of it, and I sincerely hope nobody takes offense to anything I've typed, I mean nothing by it, just expressing my opinion, or moreso my unanswered questions.

At this point, I'm probably in most belief of when your person dies, your organism self just ceases to live anymore, you get put in the ground, to return as one with the earth, the end.
 
Re: Re:

lowbudgetjunk said:
This does have the ability to go crazy right off the bat, so I offer up some thoughts.

Never deal in absolutes, always use your "God given" abilities to think for yourself and never dig your heels in.....you might just learn something from a fascist, atheist, Buddhist or a Muslim.

There is a higher power in my opinion, but this book or that book, this religion or that religion, does not make good people. There are shitty Catholics, Muslims, Baptists and shitty atheists too. There are also good ones of each denomination and possibly some atheists are better people than people that call themselves Christians.

Do good things, have principles you stand for and I think no matter which direction you go, it will be the right one.

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
.... long lost twin brother....?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
The biggest unanswered question I have is why in the hell we are on Earth and why is the cosmos is so big. I mean I don't know how interested in space you guys are, but the cosmos is YUGE! Like unimaginable x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 x Infinity YUGE!

I'm currently in a Biology class and of course studying stuff I've been interested in for quite sometime anyway - Evolution, Natural Selection, etc.

Humans have been around a lot longer than any religion, so could it be that all religions were purely created by humans? Egyptians, Greeks, Hindus, Buddhists, Islamists (not the radical kind), all would sound very similar if you were completely unfamiliar with any religion ever. Like multiple choice, A, B, C, D, or E - which religion would you choose if you weren't swayed by your parents', friends', or society's religious views?

I actually think about all this quite often, which is why I have so much to say. I would never down anyone at all and totally understand why folks choose to be devoted Christians or whatever other religion they connect with, so I'm more than capable of having a mature convo about this subject matter. thumb.gif
 
Re: Re:

TacomaJD said:
Pretty closely sums up my views/opinions as well. I grew up in church, southern baptist, active youth, etc. I quit going when I moved out on my own at 22. Probably would have quit going earlier than that if it weren't for mom waking me up every Sunday morning at 8-9am after I had been out partying all night and only had about 4-5 hrs of sleep at that time. Lots of times I sat in church on the end, trying to breathe away from my dad so he wouldn't smell the alcohol still on my breath....shitty, I know. Fun Saturday nights were my priority back then.

I question everything much more in depth the older I get. I still, all the time, contemplate religion, its legitimacy, the ins and outs of it all. One question I cannot answer is if there are so many religions all over the world, why is Christianity any different? What makes it the right one? These are hypothetical questions. You can always refer me to various scriptures, but these scriptures are from a book. Many religions have a book, as greatly relied upon as Christianity. There are far more hardcore followers of other religions than there are Christianity. With Christianity, there's a fairy tale answer for everything. "Well it's just God's plan." or but why was he/she taken early from us?? "God had a better plan for them." or one personally heard numerous times basically saying the only reason I survived my motorcycle wreck is because God was watching over me. Why was he still watching over me after I quit going to church basically because I had rather stay out all night and party? Why was it that he was watching over me and not the next person that was killed in an accident or take by way of cancer, especially when they were Christians who seemed to live the life and were still taken early. Those sayings do not make sense to me, I can't stand when people say those things because there isn't any consistency regarding the matter at all.

I've also touched on this before, but there is so much hypocrisy in the churches, especially southern Baptists - you know, those ole backslidden baptists - that even if I was to be a self proclaimed Christian, I'm not sure I'd still attend church. I'd probably choose to have "church" at home in my quiet time if that were the case. I grew up in 2 different churches, nothing really happened in the first one other than the ranks of popularity - snooty members, but the 2nd and last church I was an active member of had numerous negative things go down. And I'm not talking small backwoods church, 2nd if not the biggest church in town. When I was in the youth, our youth minister got caught beating the brakes off the church secretary in his office one day during the week, while his house was literally next door to the church, where his wife and two young kids lived with him. The bigger thing, our long time pastor and pillar of the community got caught laundering money from the offering to pay for **** and build on to his house. Once they found out, they gave him one last time to preach and opted to keep things quiet but he had to go after that last service. It leaked, everyone found out quickly, I attended his last service where he cried at the pulpit as he shouted that GOD HAD A DIFFERENT PLAN for him and his family, and that he was called to preach at some church in Georgia, several hours away now. They started that service by taking up offering, after the choir sang the first half of the service, they took up offering a 2nd time, after his sermon was given along with the benediction prayer, offering plates were passed around a 3rd time. Never had that happened before. I assume that was the pastors vile attempt at paying the church back some for the money he stole.

At this point, I don't rule out the existence of a higher power, but I don't think it is the image of the big man in the sky most like to think of, or are brought up picturing. Jesus Christ, the son of God, was sent to spread the word during his time lived on Earth, then was to die on the cross alongside 2 other men so that we can forever be forgiven of our sins, no matter how great a sin it may be, so long as we place our faith in Him. That sounds great, almost too great. I have zero problem with anyone that believes it to the fullest, I once did before I began questioning things, because that's just what I was brought up to believe. If Christ died a fuzz over 2k years ago and you must believe in Christ and be saved by your faith in Him, what happened to all the humans that died before Christ was born and old enough to spread the Gospel? What happens to the people in the far corners of the world that never hear about Him? There are many other monotheistic religions out there that, with personal bias removed, make just as much sense as Christianity. Why is Christianity any different? Do we really die and go to one of two places - Heaven where all of our wildest dreams come true (meant for humor, not mockery) and all of our deceased relatives are waiting to greet us at the pearly gates, or Hades where one is sent to endure an eternal life full of suffering worse than anything in the Nazi concentration camps or that has ever taken place on Earth.

I'm not discrediting any of it, and I sincerely hope nobody takes offense to anything I've typed, I mean nothing by it, just expressing my opinion, or moreso my unanswered questions.

At this point, I'm probably in most belief of when your person dies, your organism self just ceases to live anymore, you get put in the ground, to return as one with the earth, the end.
...i may have two brothers here...


Carry on, intelligent conversation is a good thing.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I line up well with this song. I had been a fan of this musician, Dallas Green (he IS City and Colour) for a long time before I heard this song. But he is my favorite single musician ever. Video and lyrics below.

I was raised in catholic school,
Taught to obey that one golden rule
That is, He who sits in the Heavens above
Deserves all your praise, devotion and your love
Because he had a son who had died for our sins
And with that sacrifice came a sense of contrition
That we all seem to feel when we're down on our knees
Looking up to die hoping he'll answer all our needs

But I tend to believe that it's all for not
And when the sun does set, all our souls will rot
Along with our flesh and our bones and our blood
Will seep into the earth reconnecting with the mud
And I think to myself, what a beautiful lie
To waste being devout to what could all turn out to be a lie
To be a lie

Now I do not know, but I have been told
If you don't believe in Him, well then the devil owns your soul
But let us just examine what's below this land
It's the story of a man with a pitchfork in his hand
Could you honestly believe in such a tall, tall tale
Something that sounds so make believe just like the sailor and the whale

Well I guess that this song has sealed my own fate
Lucifer won't take me, ain't crossing through no pearly gates
But if either one exists well that's fine by me
I will gladly spend the afterlife waiting in purgatory, purgatory

City and Colour - Make Believe (Little Hell Bonus Track)
 
TacomaJD said:
The biggest unanswered question I have is why in the hell we are on Earth and why is the cosmos is so big. I mean I don't know how interested in space you guys are, but the cosmos is YUGE! Like unimaginable x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 x Infinity YUGE!

I'm currently in a Biology class and of course studying stuff I've been interested in for quite sometime anyway - Evolution, Natural Selection, etc.

Humans have been around a lot longer than any religion, so could it be that all religions were purely created by humans? Egyptians, Greeks, Hindus, Buddhists, Islamists (not the radical kind), all would sound very similar if you were completely unfamiliar with any religion ever. Like multiple choice, A, B, C, D, or E - which religion would you choose if you weren't swayed by your parents', friends', or society's religious views?

I actually think about all this quite often, which is why I have so much to say. I would never down anyone at all and totally understand why folks choose to be devoted Christians or whatever other religion they connect with, so I'm more than capable of having a mature convo about this subject matter. thumb.gif

I asked the same questions as you until I was lucky enough to have the one and only God of creation reach into my life in a way I could no longer deny. I cuss, I ****, and I fight. I love and I hate... truthfully I am a terrible representative of the faith I claim to have, but God does not call the qualified, he qualifies the called. Until God shakes your foundation you will never change your mind, but when you can't do it on your own anymore, if you open your heart to him, he will change it for you.

Faith struggles to survive in our Earthly educated minds, but I think that is by design. I think there are billions of planets, and so many things that are unexplained, to teach us the importance of faith and to test our beliefs.

Also, most major religions like being Mormon, Buddhist, and Islamic, can all be traced back to the human being that created them, so yes they are 100% human created and even documented as though
 
And I understand how that can sound so ignorant or brainwashed to some, trust me, I've been there. There is NO ONE more questioning and disrespectful to the Lord than I am been in my life. But he saved me still...
 
Good stuff guys. What I don't want to do is come up with a reply to every question posed. I think if someone seeks these answers without being close minded the truth will be revealed. Just to rebut one thing JD brought up about all the people that lived before Jesus: Jesus is the new covenant. therenwas an old covenant before and Jesus became the atonement for our sin on the cross at Calvary, thus ending the old covenant and bringing forth a new covenant. The existence question is a deep deeply subject.. check out answers in genesis. It is a pretty awesome site that gives more information than anyone would care to know.
 
Re:

I definitely don't expect you to answer all those, no worries there. I was just putting my thoughts to text, not actually questioning anyone. You're good brother. I like to disect things to their core and this is one topic that's very difficult, if not borderline impossible to do that with.

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Now here is mine:

I spent a huge part of my life craving something. i never quite knew what it was. I come from an amazing home, my parents love me and my family and I have never wanted anything in life that I didn't get. My dad taught me work ethic, how to serve people and be a respectful man and contribute to society. Still looking for something. I didn't find it in pornography, alcohol, gambling, being a good boyfriend, the life of the party, a hard worker, or a fun guy to be around. No matter how much of that I was a part of, there was still an empty hole. Of course I didn't know it but I had to keep chasing the next big thing, the next fulfillment and never could be at peace. In October of 2002 I went to a Judgement house play with my girlfriend and that is where my life changed. I met Christ. I didn't meat the physical Christ but I heard the Gospel. I heard how even though I did not deserve it and may not accept it that God loved me so much he sent his son to pay the debt I racked up through mysinful life. Long story short, that night the hole in my heart was filled. Over the next 5 years I struggled with my place. I didn't just get up from praying and leave all that bad stuff alone, I still struggle to this day with the effects of my past transgressions. I pray each day for me not to go back and think about or see the things I have seen and done. It is a struggle because sin is easy, we are bent towards sin, but what I don't struggle with is God's forgiveness of my sin. I remember the fact that those sins are washed away. Satan is so much more than a guy with a pitchfork. Lucifer was the brightest of all angels and He wanted to be equal to God so he was cast into the lake of fire. Well there is not a single day that he doesn't try to attack me. It may be subtle and may be a slight attack but he attacks. In those cases, God is my Banner, Jehova Nissi. He fights my battles, he reminds me that the end is written, death has been defeated. This time last year I saw God as my Provider. He walked me through the job loss and restored us and rewarded us for our faith in him. Daily, however, I see God as my father. I see him as my creator that made me in His image and restored me to that image through his son. He rewards me, he rebukes me, he protects me, he comforts me, he guides me, and he is respected and loved by me. I say, to me he is ......... but the fact of the matter is that God is what He is no matter who looks at Him. God doesn't change because my circumstances change or because I am not a believer or because I think He is a fairy tail. God does not change, we are His children whether we like it or not. All we have to do is call out to him and he is faithful to Forgive just as I am with my son and many of you are with your children. I hope my incoherent rambling makes a bit of sense.
 
iirc..."the genesis record" is a great book. Been a while since I read it, but it goes pretty deep into the beginnings. Very interesting.
 
I was raised in a Christian home and taken to church for as long as I could remember up until around the time I moved out. During that time, all things relating to Christianity were "facts" and that was all there was to it. Like, it was always a thing. "This is your mom, this is your dad, this is god, so on and so forth". It was just the way it was. Eventually though, I started looking at it from a more inquisitive point of view. The more I dwelled on it, the more I began to realize that I had just been blindly following along with what I was told. I found more questions than answers. For example, assuming god is omniscient, then why would he give life to a person who's choices would ultimately land them in hell? He would've fully known that was going to be the final outcome right? Anywho, I would consider myself agnostic. I don't believe it is possible to prove or disprove the existence of god. If I'm right, so be it. If I'm wrong, well, hopefully he'll see it from my point of view.
 
Yes I know God is real.

I started attending a new church a couple of years ago and the one thing I have learned most is we all fall short. No matter how hard we try, we are not perfect, but God still loves us.
 
Re:

I believe and know God is real. It doesn't all make sense and I don't think it's supposed to. There are so many unanswered questions that I wonder about all the time why things happen the way they do and so forth.

You can walk around in nature and look at a sunset and know that our world didnt "just happen" (big bang) and we didnt all evolve from monkeys ect. Something big and awesome with a power we can't even begin to comprehend created everything we know and a lot we don't.

Nobody is perfect and nobody will ever be. Jesus was the only perfect one and he paid the price for our sins. All we are is a bunch of sinners all of us.

I like everyone else struggle with everything every single day and come up short all of those days.

The bible teaches right from wrong and labels sin as sin with no grey areas. If you followed the bible word for word there's nothing crazy you have to do. You just put your love/Faith/belief in God that he will take care of you and he holds the master plan and you try your best to not screw it up. Nothing good ever comes from sin. You can see it in everyday life families torn apart due to adultery, people in jail or dead for stealing/lying/murdering/drugs/alcohol,and people jealous and never being satisfied or content. The ten commandments pretty much lays out all the world's issues you see on the news or social media. Our world is a mess and the from humans stand point things that were once black and white are now grey and "ok". There's just way to many things you can read( which I don't do nearly enough) in the bible that you can see unfolding in front of you to not believe it. There's no way a bunch of guys sitting around thousands of years ago just guessed and wrote the bible.

What if it's all a big fairy tail and none of the above exist and you die ? Nothing, you lived your life trying to be the best person you could and you died.

What if it is real and you blew it off and never put your faith in God ? You've lost everything


All that being said are there good folks that are not believers ? Yep. Are there really bad folks who are (or at least claim to be) ? Yep. There's all kinds of evil in our world but I think the devils biggest targets are persons of influence or leadership especially in places of worship. It always seems like the more you try to do right, the more temptation pops up





I'm sorry if it's hard to read or appears to be written by a 10 year old. I'm sleepy and typed this on my phone but I just felt like I should give my .02





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Religion is both good and bad. It's helped many and it's hurt many. Some people need to be told how to be a good person, some people already know how to be a good person.
I believe most people only get into religion for selfish reasons.....To feel better about themselves, to lessen their guilt of hurting others because of the life they led, to justify their hate of others, to gain power and money....All in the name of religion and "Their God" not because of who they are.
Don't get me wrong, there are some who truly do good work in the name of religion but you rarely hear of them because their in the background quietly doing their thing not boasting to others how good they are ( Or have become)

I don't believe there's all seeing god looking down on us.
I don't believe I need to be told how to be a good person. I know right from wrong.
I don't believe in heaven or hell.
I believe in evolution.
I believe karma.
I believe I'm good person/citizen
I believe everyone has the right to religions freedom.

I respect others believes.
I never push my views on others.
I never argue about religion. To each their own.

If you take offence to what I said.... Sorry it's just my opinion. Just as I don't get offended in your opinion.
 
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