Most desirable 14 bolt center for front build

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

For a 14 bolt front build, what's the best stock center to start with? I know I've seen some with a ribbed center casting, anything else? Pros/cons?

bbone · May 27, 2016

not much to add here...I remember talking to Adam when he built mine, it didn't really matter.

-If you are building on the cheap, whatever 14 bolt you have.
-If you pick up a rear form a CUCV, you already have 4.56 and probly a locker which saves $

TBItoy · May 27, 2016

Re:

I'd start with the latest model I could get my hands on for a good price.

Reinforced, metallurgy, process controls, etc.

I just think you get a better "product".

Also less likely to have been ****erized by a previous owner

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

14 bolt bible says 89+ has the ribbed center section. I'd say that's probably a place to start, I see that as being a plus.

The-Boss · May 27, 2016

Re:

TBItoy said:
I'd start with the latest model I could get my hands on for a good price.

Reinforced, metallurgy, process controls, etc.

I just think you get a better "product".

Also less likely to have been ****erized by a previous owner

X2 if it is going in something serious by today's standards. Otherwise I wouldn't worry.

bbone · May 27, 2016

Not trying to be argumentative but are the older housings breaking ?

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

bbone said:
Not trying to be argumentative but are the older housings breaking ?

No. I'm just asking, if you were starting from scratch, and going to the pick n pull to get a housing to cut up, is there anything in particular to look for? I knew of the additional ribbing on the newer housings. Wasn't sure if there was anything else. If the money is the same why not. The extra ribbing looks like a plus to me.

patooyee · May 27, 2016

bbone said:
Not trying to be argumentative but are the older housings breaking ?

When TC broke one it was where the tube enters the housing. I don't think it is an epidemic though.

It's been a long time since I did my research on this so please don't consider this bible truth. But I think the ribbed housings are thicker where the tube enters the housing. And I think it's the SRW ribbed housings that are thicker there still. Also the ribbed housings use actual DOM axle tubes whereas the older non-ribbed housings use that weird oblong stuff that isn't even close to round when you really look at its cross section. At some point they increased the size of the pinion nose bearing as well. I don't know when.

There is a thread on pirate about this that I was asking the same questions in. If you search for posts under my name it might turn up.

patooyee · May 27, 2016

Here it is: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1887226-14-bolt-thick-casting.html

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

Now we're getting somewhere. Since the housing will be retubed, I don't really give a crap about the tube thickness but I know exactly what you're talking about with the difference between the newer tubes and older oblong crap. It looks like late model 89+, ribbed center will get me what I want.

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

Randy's lists 3 different part numbers for pinion bearing kits for '88 and older, '89-'98, and '99+

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=4115

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=4326

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=11723

What's the story on the 99+ 14 bolts. I'm not sure I know anything about them, or if they are essentially the same axle as the older models.

Edit: There's also something different about the '85-'85 models because they're broken out completely on the Randy's website but I don't know what it is exactly.

patooyee · May 27, 2016

redneckengineered said:
Now we're getting somewhere. Since the housing will be retubed, I don't really give a crap about the tube thickness but I know exactly what you're talking about with the difference between the newer tubes and older oblong crap. It looks like late model 89+, ribbed center will get me what I want.

Tube thickness varies, but the cast housing is the part I was referring to that was thicker on the newer models. The part of the actual cast housing where the tube enters is thicker on the newer models and thicker on specific versions of the newer models. This would make those housings more desirable for a build that was going to be re-tubed since the housing would be stronger in the weakest area.

patooyee · May 27, 2016

You are aware of the difference between the 14-bolts that you are referring to and the newer AAM rear ends that also have 14 cover bolts, right? The newer ones aren't what people generally want to build with. Not sure when they started those.

redneckengineered · May 27, 2016

patooyee said:
Tube thickness varies, but the cast housing is the part I was referring to that was thicker on the newer models. The part of the actual cast housing where the tube enters is thicker on the newer models and thicker on specific versions of the newer models. This would make those housings more desirable for a build that was going to be re-tubed since the housing would be stronger in the weakest area.

Yep, I got that part of it too, didn't know that initially but definitely something I will be looking for now.

patooyee said:
You are aware of the difference between the 14-bolts that you are referring to and the newer AAM rear ends that also have 14 cover bolts, right? The newer ones aren't what people generally want to build with. Not sure when they started those.

Yep, I think those AAM ones are 11.5s. I don't know when they started either. Randy's still lists the 99+ 14 bolts as a 10.5" so I don't think they are the AAM version.

patooyee · May 27, 2016

You've exhausted my knowledge then. I think I got you pointed in the right direction though.

TBItoy · May 27, 2016

Re:

Old drw centers were thicker than their srw counterparts (in the examples I've owned)

At one time, I had several old non ribbed 14 bolts, the wide 72-73" dually housing and the narrow "cab chassis" 63" dually housing both had thick casting centers and huge drums, the 3/4 ton srw and the cucv srw axles both had thin castings but the cucv axle had huge drums while the 3/4 ton axle had small drums

There is still a "10.5 Chevy 14 bolt" 99+ that is like the older ones. Same diff cover and such. I don't know about 10-11+ (wherever they changed to 8x180mm lug pattern) if there is still a "real" 10.5 14 bolt.

onetoncrawler · May 27, 2016

give Ryan at HeMan machine a call - I think he was supposed to get a truck load of 14 bolts in a couple of weeks ago.

As stated, if you are going to change gears, carriers, and re-tube both sides then it isn't that critical on the year model or whether or not it's a CUCV axle

patooyee · May 27, 2016

Also I think that some people these days are replacing the pinion nose bearing with a solid machined bronze bushing to further prevent pinion deflection. Apparently that bearing being relatively small compared to the others makes it the first to wear which then makes deflection more likely even before you realize it is worn. Probably a 1%er-thing though.

tallnate · May 27, 2016

redneckengineered said:
Randy's lists 3 different part numbers for pinion bearing kits for '88 and older, '89-'98, and '99+

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=4115

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=4326

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=11723

What's the story on the 99+ 14 bolts. I'm not sure I know anything about them, or if they are essentially the same axle as the older models.

Edit: There's also something different about the '85-'85 models because they're broken out completely on the Randy's website but I don't know what it is exactly.

1985 models had a different size straddle bearing that's supposedly very hard to find. All other years before and after run the traditional size straddle bearing.

I do remember reading that there is a certain 14 bolt housing that's much more prone to cracking but I can't recall what the exact year or model was. I want to say 89-91ish but I could be wrong. Woodlee ended up having to scrap one of the original 14 bolts in the hustler because the housing kept cracking open. Might want to ask him if he remembers what year model that one was.

One other thing to note is that 11.5 AAM axles don't have a 3rd pinion support straddle bearing. Personally I'd be sure to stick with a 10.5 with a 3rd support bearing myself.

rock mafia · May 27, 2016

The newer the better. Def want a ribbed housing, I wound not waste my time on the older ones. If you get one out of the newer 01 and up HD trucks with a 6.0, they has rivets instead of plug welds holding the tubes and are easier to get the tubes out.