Private Property Question

Toy4runner · Apr 30, 2013

So I was wondering if one was to buy a nice chunk of land lets say 20 acres and wanted to make a small OHV park for personal use and for friends to use, what sort of legal and liability issues would there be? I was doing some searching on the web, but can never find exactly what I am looking for when it comes to things involving liability. It would be free to use, probably fenced in, and posted as being a hazardous trail. I'm asking because it is an idea that I've had for when I get some good income.

pokey · Apr 30, 2013

Talk to Gibby. He's probably the only one on here with any real experience on this matter. Lots of pitfalls.

Binder · Apr 30, 2013

If you post it as a hazardous trail you are admitting there are hazards which puts you at risk of liability for sure. If someone gets hurt on your property it's prety hard for you to get out of it. Post it no trespassing and put up fences would be the safest bet but if your caught giving permission to wheel it then it's back on you.

WA-Wheeler · Apr 30, 2013

I swear there is like 2 other VERY long threads going over this.....

Toy4runner · Apr 30, 2013

Binder said:
If you post it as a hazardous trail you are admitting there are hazards which puts you at risk of liability for sure. If someone gets hurt on your property it's prety hard for you to get out of it. Post it no trespassing and put up fences would be the safest bet but if your caught giving permission to wheel it then it's back on you.

Well the reason being for the posting of a sign was because of this.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=4.24.210

From what I understand a hazard sign and some other requirements should void an owner from liability. But then again, I'm not sure whether or not there are exceptions listed anywhere else. Thanks for the input though

. Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated.

Edit: In response to Wheeler, if there is a link, it would be nice to see the thread, the only one I found had to do with getting grant money and starting up an OHV park as well as receiving some sort of funding for the park. I am talking about a completely unfunded plot of land.

pokey · May 1, 2013

A sign will only prove that you knew a hazard existed. The trial lawyers assoc has done a wonderful job of keeping lawyers working and property owners trying to cover their backsides in this state.

crash2 · May 1, 2013

From other in depth discussions on this subject here this is the wrong state to do anything of this sort...

Toy4runner · May 1, 2013

In that link I posted it seemed like a sign would actually help protect you from " known dangerous artificial latent condition". This is starting to look hopeless. Well thanks for the info.

Horus · May 1, 2013

I am about to do the same thing (buy land and build trails on it.) Don't bother trying to make anything official. Build your trails on your land and invite your good friends to enjoy them with you.

This has been discussed to death several times. Suffice to say America is not the "Land of the Free" we've been led to believe it is. You never truly own your land, you're just leasing it until the government needs to take it "in the interest of national security", regardless if you've paid it off or not. So just enjoy it to yourself and your friends.
:beer:

Oh, and liability is as easy as your good friends telling the hospital when they get there and they broke their arm hiking or horseback riding, not wheelin. If you invite people not willing to do that then keep a wooden axe handle at the ready in case you need to finish the job. :awesomework:

Gibby1 · May 1, 2013

Most of the posts are dead on right.

The insurance necessary to CYA is along, enough to defeat the project unless it's an event only type of use. At that point, you can charge enough for the event to cover the cost of the insurance.

20 acres isn't enough to have a good trail system except for yourself and some friends.

If you get good insurance, you can get away with unauthorized activities, once. If you have a bunch of friends wheeling and someone get's hurt, your insurance should cover it, but then they'll cancel it.

Right now, getting 20 plus acres of raw land requires a lot more than just a good income. A house on 20 acres needs to be very substantial to get a mortgage. It must be worth at least what the land is worth or your mortgage company may consider it a land loan. Land loans require huge downpayments, if you can get one at all.

I know where a guy has 60 acres for sale in Buckley right now. It's on sale too as he's going through a divorce. The property is ideal (other that being wet).

I let people wheel on my land, but on a very limited basis, and I hope no one get's hurt.

Toy4runner · May 1, 2013

Alright well thanks for the info, I was only planning on wheeling on it with friends and not letting unauthorized access use the parcel. It was only about 30,000 for that 20 acre parcel and I wasn't planning on building on it. Guess I'll have to stick to the trails haha.

Horus · May 1, 2013

Gibby said:
Right now, getting 20 plus acres of raw land requires a lot more than just a good income. A house on 20 acres needs to be very substantial to get a mortgage. It must be worth at least what the land is worth or your mortgage company may consider it a land loan. Land loans require huge downpayments, if you can get one at all.

Good info. I'm just now getting into educating myself on the subject but it is my belief that hiring a real estate attorney might be a wise idea.