TF904 / A904 / 30RH upgrades

[patooyee]

Are there any trans builders here? I'm about to rebuild a 30RH. I know there's tons of performance upgrades possible but have no clue what they are. Are input shafts interchangeable? Mine is a lockup and I would like to get rid of my 22-spline input shaft in favor of a 27 so that I can run an off the shelf aftermarket converter.

 

[BIGKEN]

https://www.transmissionpartsonline.com/index.htm you may have already found this site,i was looking into this for myself a little while back and saved it in my fav. for future parts and ref. and while it may mot be what your looking for they seem to carry all the major brands.

 

[patooyee]

Wow, thanks. That is by far the most comprehensive listing of parts I've seen so far. Have you ever ordered from them?

 

[rugger99]

That is a very comprehensive site...I will definitely keep it as reference.

 

[patooyee]

I called that place and spoke to a guy named Mike. He was very knowledgeable. I'm not going to say he was the holy grail of Chrysler transmissions but he was the most knowledgeable by far of any that I have spoke to thus far.

 

[LightBnDr]

Lol ninja you crazy

Yes pretty sure the inputs will interchange with those 3. I played hell with one for almost a month that had a bad output shaft support bearing and it chewed up governors on one trip down the highway. Over and over

I would look into upgrades on the governor as well as full manual valve body modifications. Things like new materials like Teflon and nitrile seals versus the old expanding steel sealing rings.

Other than that man they are super dinosaur basic. Unless you are gonna throw 500hp plus at it I wouldn't concentrate much more than what I listed.

I would look into a 5 or 6 pinion lower planet that is all steel if you think you are gonna be in low gear and high RPM a lot.

Then back it all up with some amsoil synthetic fluid. You oughta be set

 

[patooyee]

Lol ninja you crazy

Yes pretty sure the inputs will interchange with those 3. I played hell with one for almost a month that had a bad output shaft support bearing and it chewed up governors on one trip down the highway. Over and over

I would look into upgrades on the governor as well as full manual valve body modifications. Things like new materials like Teflon and nitrile seals versus the old expanding steel sealing rings.

Other than that man they are super dinosaur basic. Unless you are gonna throw 500hp plus at it I wouldn't concentrate much more than what I listed.

I would look into a 5 or 6 pinion lower planet that is all steel if you think you are gonna be in low gear and high RPM a lot.

Then back it all up with some amsoil synthetic fluid. You oughta be set

I'm definitely doing either a Transgo 2 or 3 manual shift kit. Overhaul kit K125H-HP comes with alto red clutches and Kolene steels. I don't see why I WOULDN'T put that in there for the $150 it cost. I've seen stock overhaul kits with less in them for more money. There are some aftermarket servo pistons ... are those worth it?

 

[LightBnDr]

Yes. The reverse Pistons like to crack when they get real old but you will see that when you tear it down. I think it's worth using billet Pistons so it will never happen. The same can happen in the forward and direct clutch drums so if you can find a kit comes with molded steel Pistons that would be great.

I don't ever remember transgo kits coming with them. Not even sure they are made. Air checking them when you build it will tell you if they are cracked.

 

[patooyee]

I didn't mean to say that the Transgo kits came with them. Just that they exist.

 

[LightBnDr]

Either way it's a pretty decent trans for low power applications. Surprisingly they last a pretty long time for being an old hydraulic operated trans.

If I were gonna build one for a healthy small engine I'd focus on the weakest points. That would be upping the pressures in all ranges. But then you have to pay close attention to those old aluminum Pistons because the upped pressures will crack them.

I feel like talking about it is refreshing my memory on them. Lol thanks

I wouldn't worry a lot about "red clutch" materials etc. sure these are good materials but keep in mind the transgo materials will last just as long for your application if pressures are kept safe.

As well as remembering that the "red" materials will burn down just as fast when you have a pressure loss. So in my opinion those material are good for high HP applications where a lot of instant torque is put on a clutch pack.

Hope this helps brother

 

[BIGKEN]

Wow, thanks. That is by far the most comprehensive listing of parts I've seen so far. Have you ever ordered from them?

no i havent but i work @ a dealership and just started messing with transmissions and i have used thier power flow diagrams several times because they usualy have better picture than the work shop manual.

 

[patooyee]

lightbndr, I would appreciate some input on this.

Today was a fricking nightmare working on this thing. I got it all put together but had way too much end play. I didn't have any leftover parts but I took it apart and verified that every thrust washer, snap ring, etc. was in and in the right place according to the drawings. Still too much end play. I searched around the web and found a post on another forum where a guy had the same problem. It ended up being a difference in output shaft lengths between two transmissions that he was combining. (Same model transmissions, just big machine tolerance.) So I measured the lengths of the two that I had and sure enough, there was about .1" difference between them! (That's pretty major when total end play is supposed to max out at .091"!) The problem was that I was using the longer one already. Since end play is set by the space between the input and output shafts I checked my input shaft lengths since I had also swapped those. I had 4 input shafts laying around and there was .2" difference between the longest and shortest! So now my problem is that the selective endplay bushings are not made thick enough for me to achieve satisfactory end play. For lack of guidance I decided to just use two stacked bushings, which do fit, and after putting it back together I have great end play! Do you think there is a better solution to this?

So after that I proceed to set the band adjustments. Front band adjusted OK but the rear / reverse / low band requires so much adjustment that I run out of threaded stud to even tighten it! I know that's not right so I start taking it apart again when I see a part number written on it. I figured I would check Mike's website just in case to make sure it's the right band. SURE AS **** HE SENT THE THE WRONG DAMN BAND!!!! It's too big. So now I have to tear it all down again to install the right one.

I also got a $700 custom converter in for it and the builder built it with the wrong spline count DESPITE me telling him like 52 times to make it 26 spline!!!!

This trans build is going on a month now.

 

[LightBnDr]

First I was gonna say yes the band sounds like it came out of a 46-47-48 series trans. Bummer man

If you have 2 brass or steel coated thrust washers to stack, absolutely man, rock that sucker. No worries.

If you have 2 plastic, I'm gonna say it's a crap shoot of sorts. If you get it super hot with all those ponies, you can melt and squish the 2 plastics. If you have 1 plastic and 1 metal, rock it no worries.

When you're building one off combos, it's real hard and lucky to get everything you need correctly the first time. The people on the other end of the line are just selling.

So I found you have to repeat yourself and ask the same question a couple times to confirm they heard you.

Just be 100% sure you have an output shaft bearing in the extension housing held in place with a snap ring

 

[patooyee]

Thank you! The washers I stacked are the round steel ones. There is a third 3-tang one that is coated brass that I only used one of.

The band he sent was for a 904, but the wrong year. There is one listed for 1960 - 67 and then another for 1968+. He sent me the 60-67 one for my 95 trans. He knew what year my trans was. I'm guessing that the 60-67 reverse drum was bigger than the 68+.

Just got a call back form the converter shop. The guy who built it immediately fessed up to putting the wrong splines in it. They're sending a call tag and are going to get it turned around in a day for me so that's good.

 

[patooyee]

Another thing ... while adjusting the front / kickdown band I was able to tighten the adjuster to 72 in-lbs. But that didn't result in the kickdown lever being pressed up against the kickdown servo. At the time I figured it was because the servo wasn't under pressure and it would extend and make up the difference once the transmission was running. But thinking about it now, WTH was providing 72 in-lbs of resistance then? Is it normal for the kickdown lever not to be contacting its servo rod once adjusted? The kickdown band was very big / loose going in but did tighten down to what I would figure would be an operational size once I adjusted the stud. Now I'm wondering if I might also have the wrong front band?

 

[patooyee]

I got a new rear band and it's not much tighter. My service manual says to tighten to 72 in-lbs and back off 4 turns. (1995 Wrangler.) But the 1997 Manual says to back off 7 turns. 7 Brings it back to barely acceptable thread engagement on the stud but 4 is still definitely too little. IDK???

 

[lowbudgetjunk]

Re:

I'm an idiot, but I'd go with 5, 5.5 or 6 .

Still reading and learning, so smart people carry on.

 

[LightBnDr]

Tighten kick down band until you have about
1/8-1/4" clearance between the band arm and servo pin. Done move on

Tighten the rear/reverse band the same way. Pull the apply arm by hand to get roughly the same amount of clearance. Done move on.

Forget about the bands from here on out. They are done and ready to hold 700hp

As far as band sizes, there should not be huge changes in any of the hardware clearances unless you are using aftermarket servos and apply arms. If your adjustments are crazy off then you need to research what bands you were given.

If you are using aftermarket servos and such, adjust them the way I described and forget about em.

 

[patooyee]

I didn't end up using aftermarket servos. There is only one that I could find and many reviews I found on it said that it leaked for some reason. I saw your last post after I got home from the shop doing this ...

Today I tore it all down again and found that the reverse band is right. It is the same size as the band that came out of the trans originally. So I put it back in and put it all back together again.

I looked up the service manual for a 95 and a 97 version of my trans. They agreed on the kickdown band adjustment being 2.5 turns backed off, so that's what I did. They differed on the reverse band. The 95 said 4 turns, the 97 said 7. I found that 4 wasn't enough to get the locking nut on my stud safely, 7 barely was. This is the result:
30rh band adjustment lash

This is what my rear band adjustment stud looked like when it came out of the transmission:

This is what it looks like now:

I'm worried that there isn't any adjustement left for in the future.

This is the kickdown band stud now. I don't have a pic of it from before teardown but it looked about like this as I recall.

EDIT: I don't know why my Youtube video won't embed. I'm doing it the same way I've always done it.

 

[LightBnDr]

The rear band is a smidge tight but I'd honestly run it that way. It's only held in reverse anyway and I like a quick engagement so I'd run it.

The kickdown band is a little more sensitive because it has to release in order to fully engage 3rd gear. So there is a slight overlap during the gear change while your direct clutches are applying and the band is releasing. I personally don't like the play that 2.5 turns gives me. I adjust it by feel which is about 1/4" of arm movement. When you do valve body upgrades it quickens that overlap time so I like my band a bit tighter.

Rock that thing man