Starting soon, recap.

[crash2]

One more thing......


I DO NOT run off the trails. (ok, maybe a new rock line here and there)
I DO NOT litter.
I DO NOT cause problems. (e.i. - campfires, parties, dumping, etc.)

But.......

I DO NOT get involved with trail fixes and maintenance.
I DO NOT go to the clean-ups.
I DO NOT tell people to stop a minor harmfull act.


Am I or anyone like me to blame? Blame for what?


(umm, this flame suit is nice)

IMO, those who follow the rules are not the problem--but turning a blind eye does not help. Kinda like the saying and I forget how it goes, but one good deed doesn't add up to 10 bad ones, or something to that nature.

But here is my problem with that. You walk the shirttails of those who do, and who work hard at it.

Is it really that hard to put forth a little effort in helping? Sad part is, if everybody put forth a "little" effort, could you imagine what could be done in the long run?

And I am not talking about just reiter, this aplies to any area we have, and those areas we used to be able to count on 2 hands and 2 feet, now we are lucky to be able to count those areas we have on one hand...

 

[Money Mark]

But here is my problem with that. You walk the shirttails of those who do, and who work hard at it.

Many folks (including myself) don't have a problem with others doing all the work. Honestly, it's probabaly better that there are not "too many cooks in the pot"....so to speak.

My biggest issue is that who is to say what's is wrong or what is right? Not me.......

Is it really that hard to put forth a little effort in helping?

The effort is not hard. The desired outcome is where some folks parts ways.

 

[Not Jobless]

Wow, it is truly amazing that the sheeple who were just at the RTW meeting this last Wednesday can't see past the fact that doing a "good deed" at Reiter and "doing what you can" to keep the place open is absurd.
You can put in all the volunteer hours you want between now and when the Planning Committee report comes out and it will have 0% (ZERO) affect on the outcome.

You can go re-read my other post in the locked thread.

While everyone at the RTW meeting was concerned about what to work on next, no one was even remotely concerned with the big picture that will present itself in a matter of a month or two. 99% of the people at the meeting didn

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Im going to start offering a wheeling charter service on private lands.:corn:

 

[War-Jeeper]

Wow, it is truly amazing that the sheeple who were just at the RTW meeting this last Wednesday can't see past the fact that doing a "good deed" at Reiter and "doing what you can" to keep the place open is absurd.
You can put in all the volunteer hours you want between now and when the Planning Committee report comes out and it will have 0% (ZERO) affect on the outcome.

You can go re-read my other post in the locked thread.

While everyone at the RTW meeting was concerned about what to work on next, no one was even remotely concerned with the big picture that will present itself in a matter of a month or two. 99% of the people at the meeting didn

 

[Not Jobless]

Quick point brad, most of the folks at the meeting on wednesday had already seen that map, One of the planning committee memebers brought it in and showed us several months back. It even had the area sutability layed over top of it.

FYI is all:awesomework:

Did anyone learn from it, or was it just show & tell?

Edit: Don't even bother answering that...it's obvious.

 

[Not Jobless]

I love the self promoting horn tooting in this thread, it's so...educational, insightful, productive & enlightening.

In fact I'm so motivated by it I think I'm going to get my ass outa my office chair and go get another cup of coffee :awesomework:

 

[Not Jobless]

Im going to start offering a wheeling charter service on private lands.:corn:

How far from Monroe are ya :redneck:

 

[bigiron]

The guy putting on the CORE challenge should file for the permits to build a ORV park.... It seems the timing will be about right for a good living for him if he could get it thru the system :awesomework:

 

[Kat]

I believe that blocking trails down to a single vehicle width or slightly more HAS to due with education. You Educating the masses that we need to keep these trails down to a single vehicle track or maybe 2 and not have a 6 differant lines going to the same place, tearing up the woods that we love.

A part of wheeling has to due with being in places that most normal vehicles can NOT go which also includes the woods we wheel in as well as the dunes, the mountains, hills and other places.

Thank You Karl, Sam and Mike for your kind words, We (Rhonda and I) are users who care and want to due something.

 

[Harvester of Sorrow]

The problem for me is the following:

I came to this site for education mostly for Reiter and the things that might be changing there. The problem is that there might be a handfull of threads that lightly touch on a subject and then become a giggle fest of emoticons and such.

So guess what...I stop reading, because I don't have the time to wade through 9 pages of **** to find quality content that may never arrive. I shut down the thread, return my focus to something different and move on. There in lies the problem with our "local" agencies, a lack of direction and bright focus.

How many acronyms do we really need for "our cause". I know that in my simple little life I have trouble keeping track of who or what WOW, RTW, PNW4WDA, WOHVA, DNR, BLM etc. stand for. Imagine what the governmental agencies do when they talk about things...they glaze over and can only picture crack-head, littering, meadow mudding, car burning, erosion creating 4x4 redneck ****s.

It is so not difficult to clip out and save the bad press that has been generated from our sport. It is so not difficult to walk along a trail and shoot a photo of damage to ecosystems. It is so not difficult to enter the domain of motorized users and create a report that details how un-educated, un-organized, and how damaging our HOBBY is. How expensive it will be to maintain the lands this HOBBY utilizes, coupled with the fact that it is not a neccessity automatically defaults the issue to "...how can we eliminate the wastefull spending..."

Polishing the lense, focusing a line of sight, and bringing Reiter to the front of the public, and governmental mind has really only done one thing...certified that it will be gone. A few small construction projects are all that remain from gates being placed at the entrance points and keeping motorized use out.

Elimination of the problem is the simplest and quickest way to eliminate the cost involved in dealing with a NON-ESSENTIAL problem area.

We are their problem.

 

[crash2]

Wow, it is truly amazing that the sheeple who were just at the RTW meeting this last Wednesday can't see past the fact that doing a "good deed" at Reiter and "doing what you can" to keep the place open is absurd.
You can put in all the volunteer hours you want between now and when the Planning Committee report comes out and it will have 0% (ZERO) affect on the outcome.

Absurd. No, thats sitting in traffic on a daily basis, thats buying worthless crap, thats sitting in front of the TV for hours, thats absorb.
What does doing the right thing, have anything to do with the outcome? Really? Yes, the planning committee can just say--close the whole area. Sure, so should we just roll over? We are going to die some day, should we just stop breathing? Thats absorb.

You can go re-read my other post in the locked thread.

While everyone at the RTW meeting was concerned about what to work on next, no one was even remotely concerned with the big picture that will present itself in a matter of a month or two. 99% of the people at the meeting didn

 

[Boonie Buster]

Absurd. No, thats sitting in traffic on a daily basis, thats buying worthless crap, thats sitting in front of the TV for hours, thats absorb.
What does doing the right thing, have anything to do with the outcome? Really? Yes, the planning committee can just say--close the whole area. Sure, so should we just roll over? We are going to die some day, should we just stop breathing? Thats absorb.



Interesting, you come to one meeting after a long spell and you make some nice "assumptions". That map has been shown before, along with one of the other feasibility maps and I have a complete complete of everything that committee has done. What does that mean? Not a damn thing. What are we supposed to do, look at a map and run and hide because of whats there? Thats aburb.



Impress the greenies? Interesting. Anybody with half a brain will agree that you will never impress any greenie until you are off the land for good. I don't ever recall us saying we are trying to impress the greenies, but only our selfs and the DNR.

Again, your statements are just your opinion--one with the attitude you need to just roll over and quit, put forth no effort, don't really care.

Education and enforcement are th key ingredients right now.

Interesting, You see, the Greenies are smarter, more organized, and have more money and pull in this situation. Partly because they dont tear up the land like "we" do. So yes, we need to impress the Greenies, half the complaints from you and the others is that they're bitching about us and trying to shut us down...."We" shouldn't ignore them....

I might join up sides with them soon...:kissmyass:

Action - The Silent Killer

 

[CHOP SHOP]

We are going to die some day, should we just stop breathing? Thats absurb.

while true, it sure is a waste of time/effort chasing immortality.:booo:

absurd, damnit its absurd. did you absorb all of this?

 

[crash2]

Interesting, You see, the Greenies are smarter, more organized, and have more money and pull in this situation. Partly because they dont tear up the land like "we" do. So yes, we need to impress the Greenies, half the complaints from you and the others is that they're bitching about us and trying to shut us down...."We" shouldn't ignore them....

I might join up sides with them soon...:kissmyass:

Action - The Silent Killer

More organizied, yes they are. And to fight there battle, all they need is a little time and a camera.

Ignore them, who said anything about ignoring them.

You are missing a point here. Let me ask you something, and think about your answer. If you had a trail, and everybody played by the rules, and stayed on the trail. Do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Now with that said, look at the other areas, like elbe, evans creek where for 90% folks follow the rules. Now, do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Sure they can still complain, but they will always complain.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

More organizied, yes they are. And to fight there battle, all they need is a little time and a camera.

Ignore them, who said anything about ignoring them.

You are missing a point here. Let me ask you something, and think about your answer. If you had a trail, and everybody played by the rules, and stayed on the trail. Do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Now with that said, look at the other areas, like elbe, evans creek where for 90% folks follow the rules. Now, do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Sure they can still complain, but they will always complain.

erosion is the reason behind the new seasonal closures at evens. Elbe offers no scenic stuff really, so not many greenies around here.

Evans creek is located on a dead end to the mountain, the back of the mountain gets little traffic compared to the other park entrances. Not nearly as many EYES. Anybody going to the Carbon or to mowich drive right by the evans parking lot and see nothing destructive to complain about.

Elbe is located in a forest with nothing more than firewood gathering/logging going on. No greenies get in there. Theres no hiking trails, no vistas, no close by population, no thru traffic. If you see anybody up there thay have an orv or a skidder, plain and simple.

you guys all live in or close to yuppieville. reiter is so close to thousands of users. thousands of eyes. thousands of folks hiking to the lake, hiking for the veiw, walking thiers dogs cuz they live in apartment, folks that have NOTHING TO DO but finger you while you wheel.

SAD BUT TRUE. you guys have to share with too many nerds and nerds make the rules. Plain and simple.

 

[crash2]

erosion is the reason behind the new seasonal closures at evens. Elbe offers no scenic stuff really, so not many greenies around here.

Evans creek is located on a dead end to the mountain, the back of the mountain gets little traffic compared to the other park entrances. Not nearly as many EYES. Anybody going to the Carbon or to mowich drive right by the evans parking lot and see nothing destructive to complain about.

Elbe is located in a forest with nothing more than firewood gathering/logging going on. No greenies get in there. Theres no hiking trails, no vistas, no close by population, no thru traffic. If you see anybody up there thay have an orv or a skidder, plain and simple.

you guys all live in or close to yuppieville. reiter is so close to thousands of users. thousands of eyes. thousands of folks hiking to the lake, hiking for the veiw, walking thiers dogs cuz they live in apartment, folks that have NOTHING TO DO but finger you while you wheel.

SAD BUT TRUE. you guys have to share with too many nerds and nerds make the rules. Plain and simple.

Odd. I recall seeing a TON of SUV's heading up past Evans--alot of greeenies going past the entrance to Evans.

But you missed my point.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Odd. I recall seeing a TON of SUV's heading up past Evans--alot of greeenies going past the entrance to Evans.

But you missed my point.

you musta missed my point even worse. You are correct. THEY DROVE RIGHT BY EVANS. DROVE RIGHT BY.

NOT STOPPING TO TAKE PICTURES of people ****ing up the trails.

they drive right by on the way to mowich lake, thats all thats past evans.

It was the forrest service that came up with the seasonal closures for evans due to water following the snow ruts and gaining speed and soaking in at lower points not being absorbed where it should.
NOT the GREENIES. They were too busy taking pictures of the lake and birdsa and sunsets, instead of wheelers muddin it up.

 

[Boonie Buster]

More organizied, yes they are. And to fight there battle, all they need is a little time and a camera.

Ignore them, who said anything about ignoring them.

You are missing a point here. Let me ask you something, and think about your answer. If you had a trail, and everybody played by the rules, and stayed on the trail. Do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Now with that said, look at the other areas, like elbe, evans creek where for 90% folks follow the rules. Now, do you think the greenies will have a legit complaint? Sure they can still complain, but they will always complain.

Ok, you kinda answered your own question, yes they will complain...Is it a legitamate complaint, depends on what the complaint is, but it is more than likely legit.

And if I had a trail where only nice people played on it, yes, people still would complain, if it was on MY land They would not have a legitamate complaint, if it was on shared land (the greenie and I owned it) Then yes, his complaint would be legitamate as it's his area also and yes, he does have a say in what goes on. As I have a say in what goes on in the hiking community and yes, I complain about them too, they aren't perfect. Same with the motorcycles/atv's. But I have to say there are a lot of good things about each group that go on all the time, like trail repairs in ALL aspects of each sport.

It's unfortunate because my GF liked going out and exploring and wheeling, two times out to Reiter and she HATES the sport... It's amazing how easily people are turned off by the actions of others, and she's not one to be easily pushed into a train of thought like that. But you have to realize people are impressionable and they see what goes on up there, she knows of the clean-ups and such and what we (my group/croney's) does to help out to keep it clean and such. But people see what happens up there.... Usually the ones making noise are the bad ones.... so they get seen.

 

[crash2]

you musta missed my point even worse. You are correct. THEY DROVE RIGHT BY EVANS. DROVE RIGHT BY.

NOT STOPPING TO TAKE PICTURES of people ****ing up the trails.

they drive right by on the way to mowich lake, thats all thats past evans.

It was the forrest service that came up with the seasonal closures for evans due to water following the snow ruts and gaining speed and soaking in at lower points not being absorbed where it should.
NOT the GREENIES. They were too busy taking pictures of the lake and birdsa and sunsets, instead of wheelers muddin it up.

You don't need pictures of people doing it. Thats the grand thing about the greenies, they just have to have the after affects. And those after affects are just as destrutive torwards us as picture of rigs on the trails.

And yes, I have seen many a SUV's going into the park itself.