DNR Funding:

[NotSoPC]

O.M.G..

folks. you just don't get it! we're NOT BIG ENOUGH.

Does one little mosquito flying around prompt you to put on bug spray? No. You probably wouldn't even notice it.

After that mosquito bites you, do you end up putting on bug spray? Yes.

Translation: begging for NOVA or a fair user fee will get us nowhere. There are 10-15 other groups out there asking the same thing, wanting a piece of the pie. We're not going to win that fight in an economic deficit.

What will get us somewhere is putting DNR into triage mode. Putting them in a position where they have to go "OH ****, we have a problem and we need to solve it. NOW." We don't have any money to ticket and prosecute 500 people.. plus it'd be a big PR boondogle. Opps. Well we better see what we can do to mitigate the problem and make ORV users happy until we get money to fix it right. It has worked with other user groups, and can work for us :;

This is why I think rallying for old reiter might actually work. I'm not for opening deer flats and proclaiming the rest closed.. because this will look bad for us. Go big (all of reiter as I mentioned above) or go home.

Could also back fire and they say "See! ALL wheelers are bad land killing people with no regard to rules and laws!" Then what?

 

[Money Mark]

Willing to help?

Yes.

 

[japerry]

http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/spcreatenew.html

I cant do it on my own but have asked to get the packet e-mailed to me to see what all needs to done. Willing to help?

ohh I've been wanting this option for years. it'd be awesome!

The Washington State Department of Licensing requires that we have at least 3500 signatures from registered vehicle owners in order to initiate the project.

I think between us, motorcycles, and ATVs we could come up with well over this amount.

 

[NotSoPC]

Yes.

Cool:awesomework: Then when I get the packet I will e-mail it to you or who ever is tied in with a group that fits the bill to represent us.:beer:

 

[Money Mark]

Go big (all of reiter as I mentioned above) or go home.

Waiting for your lead......:stirpot:

 

[NotSoPC]

ohh I've been wanting this option for years. it'd be awesome!

The Washington State Department of Licensing requires that we have at least 3500 signatures from registered vehicle owners in order to initiate the project.

I think between us, motorcycles, and ATVs we could come up with well over this amount.

:awesomework: Plus we could come up with a really cool looking plate

 

[Ty.]

Certainly not arguing.

Also, when I've talked to DNR people about this in the past, I was talking about building a wireless camera setup. Ok, you just destroyed the camera, too bad the recorder is somewhere in a 18 acre area.

uke:

I thought about doing something similar... Putting a transponder on the DNR vehicles that patrol certain areas, so I would know if they were close.

 

[The_Shocker]

http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/spcreatenew.html

I cant do it on my own but have asked to get the packet e-mailed to me to see what all needs to done. Willing to help?

From that link.....

"How to apply
We can

 

[Travis1]

First, DNR roads are non-highway roads. Therefore RCW states that ORVs are allowed to be on them. Except when otherwise specified that its open to street legal vehicles for on-road use only. A sign is required for this.

Secondly, having dirt or mud on your rig and returning to your tow vehicle does not give a preponderance of evidence that you caused resource damage or went off-trail. DNR could not prosecute based on your truck being dirty.

Third, tire tracks are much harder to track than you think (trust me, I've tried.. its HARD! except in snow ..:. Again, like mud on the truck, it would be close to impossible to show probable cause. They would have to be waiting at the entrance (exit?) and catch you coming out of a trail. But with most 'grey areas' having 10s to hundreds of miles of trail, its going to be pretty hard to sit at one and catch a few people coming out of it.

In short... if you're going to wheel in a grey area and an LEO shows up, make sure you have updated tabs, seatbelts, etc, etc just as if you were at Walker. Whatever ticket they would write at walker at the entrance, they're going to look for at any of these grey areas. They have done this in some grey areas before. They will also warn you not to go off the logging road. If an LEO gives you this advice, I'd highly suggest following it (that day). He may or may not decide to leave the parking area all day... but just in case, I'd be a good little wheeler and explore the hundreds of miles of logging road available to us :awesomework:

DNR roads, are non-highway roads, BUT, a bigass BUT, unless the agency responsible for managing those non-highway roads AUTHORIZES a roads use by off-road vehicles - it's not permitted. Those signs you see are a courtesy, reinforcing the law saying you can't be on the road. RCW 46.09.450 section 1, subsection a and RCW 46.09.360

RCW 46.09.450
Authorized and prohibited uses. (Effective July 1, 2011.)


(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is lawful to operate an off-road vehicle upon:

(a) A nonhighway road and in parking areas serving designated off-road vehicle areas if the state, federal, local, or private authority responsible for the management of the nonhighway road authorizes the use of off-road vehicles; and

(b) A street, road, or highway as authorized under RCW 46.09.360.

(2) Operations of an off-road vehicle on a nonhighway road, or on a street, road, or highway as authorized under RCW 46.09.360, under this section is exempt from registration requirements of *chapter 46.16 RCW and vehicle lighting and equipment requirements of chapter 46.37 RCW.

(3) It is unlawful to operate an off-road vehicle upon a private nonhighway road if the road owner has not authorized the use of off-road vehicles.

(4) Nothing in this section authorizes trespass on private property.

(5) The provisions of RCW 4.24.210(5) shall apply to public landowners who allow members of the public to use public facilities accessed by a highway, street, or nonhighway road for recreational off-road vehicle use.

RCW 46.09.360
Regulation by local political subdivisions or state agencies. (Effective July 1, 2011.)


Notwithstanding any of the provisions of this chapter, any city, county, or other political subdivision of this state, or any state agency, may regulate the operation of nonhighway vehicles on public lands, waters, and other properties under its jurisdiction, and on streets, roads, or highways within its boundaries by adopting regulations or ordinances of its governing body, provided such regulations are not less stringent than the provisions of this chapter. However, the legislative body of a city with a population of less than three thousand persons may, by ordinance, designate a street or highway within its boundaries to be suitable for use by off-road vehicles. The legislative body of a county may, by ordinance, designate a road or highway within its boundaries to be suitable for use by off-road vehicles if the road or highway is a direct connection between a city with a population of less than three thousand persons and an off-road vehicle recreation facility.

Second, having fresh WET mud (not just muddy water) on your rig in an area with only logging roads and no mud to play in, is going to cause you a problem as you are loading up on a trailer. Doesn't matter if you caused real resource damage or not, the evidence on your rig is going to say you left the road and that is enough. Will it hold in court? dunno, but it's going to be on you to argue yourself out of it. The DNR E&E is usually pretty reasonable, I would NOT expect the same from fish and wildlife.

Third, tire tracks can be hard to track if there's a lot of rigs, or if a rig could go any direction after you spot the first track. If not, they aren't hard to follow, BTDT. And why wait by a trail head... wait by the tow rig and be guaranteed a score. Going to try and wait one of them out if they have it in for you? might as well get it over before dusk falls, cause that's another fine.

 

[NotSoPC]

From that link.....

"How to apply
We can

 

[japerry]

Could also back fire and they say "See! ALL wheelers are bad land killing people with no regard to rules and laws!" Then what?

Not if its executed properly. I'm not suggesting that we get 200+ people to just start wheeling again. No. That would not work. What I'm suggesting is TELLING DNR, the media, local government, EVERYONE that we're sick of the lies that were fed to us about Reiter being closed and how it needs to be open. And that without funding we have no where to go.

Invite the press, invite DNR, invite our legislators out.

The difference between me and many others here is that this is my key ethic:
"Public land should be open to public use in a responsible matter"

Others:
"Public land should be open to public use, but I'll go along with whatever DNR says because they're the law."

If we band together and bring a message that says "While we support the new Reiter -- the current project plan is unacceptable because its unfunded. Therefore the old Reiter needs to be open until funding is secured"

And I bet ya, we will have the cities of Monroe, Sultan, Index, and Gold Bar all behind us. We might even be able to get Snohomish County behind us. The economic benefits will outweigh the environmental ones.

 

[japerry]

Waiting for your lead......:stirpot:

If I thought people would follow, I would lead.

 

[Money Mark]

If I thought people would follow, I would lead.

:haha:Ok. So where does that leave us?

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

Up **** creek where you started! :booo:

 

[Ty.]

Second, having fresh WET mud (not just muddy water) on your rig in an area with only logging roads and no mud to play in, is going to cause you a problem as you are loading up on a trailer. Doesn't matter if you caused real resource damage or not, the evidence on your rig is going to say you left the road and that is enough. Will it hold in court? dunno, but it's going to be on you to argue yourself out of it.

What if your rig was already covered in mud, and driving through a puddle just made it look fresh? Would everyone be guilty until proven inoccent in your perfect world? Do you work for the TSA?

Trail Security Agency.-- Halt, trail offender!

 

[The_Shocker]

Maybe. But it would give us the time to pull it together and be ready when they start accepting them again.

True. It seems that we need a non profit group to file the paperwork for this. Find that willing group and start gathering signatures should be the first step.

 

[Money Mark]

RTW is a non-profit group. I believe we have the proper paperwork done to help on this.

 

[japerry]

RTW is a non-profit group. I believe we have the proper paperwork done to help on this.

Now comes the hard part.. finding 3500 people willing to help. :; I wonder if any will follow the call?

 

[Money Mark]

Free Reiter.:;

 

[boardbysled]

I would be able to get 30-50 signitures just from friends/family. I bet if we stood outside the gates for the swapmeet, we could get easily a thousand. Throw a bike race/event in there, and we would almost have our quota.