DNR Funding:

[Horus]

Free Reiter.:;

Indeed. :;

 

[Travis1]

What if your rig was already covered in mud, and driving through a puddle just made it look fresh? Would everyone be guilty until proven inoccent in your perfect world? Do you work for the TSA?

Trail Security Agency.-- Halt, trail offender!

When you touch it with your finger, if it's fresh, it's fresh on the paint.

If it's dry, but only wet from a puddle, it's going to be dry underneath.

I'm just telling you how things would shake down.

 

[Binder]

Not if its executed properly. I'm not suggesting that we get 200+ people to just start wheeling again. No. That would not work. What I'm suggesting is TELLING DNR, the media, local government, EVERYONE that we're sick of the lies that were fed to us about Reiter being closed and how it needs to be open. And that without funding we have no where to go.

Invite the press, invite DNR, invite our legislators out.

The difference between me and many others here is that this is my key ethic:
"Public land should be open to public use in a responsible matter"

Others:
"Public land should be open to public use, but I'll go along with whatever DNR says because they're the law."

If we band together and bring a message that says "While we support the new Reiter -- the current project plan is unacceptable because its unfunded. Therefore the old Reiter needs to be open until funding is secured"

And I bet ya, we will have the cities of Monroe, Sultan, Index, and Gold Bar all behind us. We might even be able to get Snohomish County behind us. The economic benefits will outweigh the environmental ones.

Jacob it's like you said, "we're too small". This is the same reason the WOHVA rally at the state capitol will fail.
Not only will it fail but it will leave us worse off than where we started after they call our hand and we show a pair of two's.

 

[Binder]

When you touch it with your finger, if it's fresh, it's fresh on the paint.

If it's dry, but only wet from a puddle, it's going to be dry underneath.

I'm just telling you how things would shake down.

Travis you spend too much time in internet land. My rig has wet mud on it 10 months out of the year because it rains most every weekend.

 

[Binder]

Certainly not arguing.

But even with a game camera, I think it's going to be hard to prove their case, that is if the camera isn't stolen or destroyed in the first place. I'll be honest, doing forest watch, I've spotted people way the fawk off trail in clear green area in the ORV park no less. Even with a telephoto lens and being there in person I've had a hell of a time catching faces on film in the past.

So the only way I see that working well on any scale is if they just start targeting vehicle owners the same way they do at red light cameras. License plates and "unique" vehicles are easy to identify.

Also, when I've talked to DNR people about this in the past, I was talking about building a wireless camera setup. Ok, you just destroyed the camera, too bad the recorder is somewhere in a 18 acre area.

You're confusing two different issues. Taking a picture of someone off trail is a waste of time. Taking a picture of someone damaging a tree would go much farther depending on a few things.

 

[Travis1]

You're confusing two different issues. Taking a picture of someone off trail is a waste of time. Taking a picture of someone damaging a tree would go much farther depending on a few things.

I'm not confusing anything. Perhaps I have some experience in this department, trying to catch people fawk up ORV parks.

Off trail or tree damage is really no different, it's illegal, that's not a point of debate, it's reality and not the problem with the cameras.

The problem is getting identifiable pictures, so you CAN go after someone. The pictures are worthless if all you have is a license plate and no way to identify who was driving the vehicle. Without that, about the most they can do is send a picture to the registered owner with a stern warning.

Then even with a clear picture of their face, you still have to figure out who they are.

 

[Travis1]

Travis you spend too much time in internet land. My rig has wet mud on it 10 months out of the year because it rains most every weekend.

Yeah, I've never had dried mud on my rig. I've never seen the fact that unless I get in to a LOT of water or it's a big downpour, the dried mud that is contact with the paint is still dry.

You take some tire tracks, going off the road in to the brush, then finding a muddy rig even back on the road trying to load up to leave. 2 and 2 will be put together and depending on the officer that catches you, you could easily find yourself walking away with a ticket. Even if you can get it thrown out in court, it's still taking your time and money to fight that battle, so who really wins in the end.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

You're confusing two different issues. Taking a picture of someone off trail is a waste of time. Taking a picture of someone damaging a tree would go much farther depending on a few things.

Tell that to the guys popped for it in the last couple years up in lil naches, rimrock and over on the west side. Not a perfect system but it certainly can't hurt.

 

[Binder]

I'm not confusing anything. Perhaps I have some experience in this department, trying to catch people fawk up ORV parks.

Off trail or tree damage is really no different, it's illegal, that's not a point of debate, it's reality and not the problem with the cameras.

It's completely different. If it were the same it would be covered under the same law. One is a criminal issue and one is a monetary issue. A criminal issue must be proven 100% while a monetary issue you only need 51%.

Tell that to the guys popped for it in the last couple years up in lil naches, rimrock and over on the west side. Not a perfect system but it certainly can't hurt.

You guys can continue to chase ghosts or see the reality of things then try to find a real solution. There's only been a couple three people "popped" in the last several years and none of them were proven guilty. Even if they were proven guilty averaging one per year is a joke at best. This accomplishes absolutely nothing.

 

[crash2]

Travis you spend too much time in internet land. My rig has wet mud on it 10 months out of the year because it rains most every weekend.

You do know if you go in reverse the mud will fall off right :redneck:

 

[japerry]

Jacob it's like you said, "we're too small". This is the same reason the WOHVA rally at the state capitol will fail.
Not only will it fail but it will leave us worse off than where we started after they call our hand and we show a pair of two's.

I think the WOHVA rally will fail because it doesn't really do anything. having a bunch of people bitch and moan is easy to drown out.

Having a couple hundred people start showing up at Reiter every weekend is different. But my hunch is that even a solid threat that people are coming back will make DNR rethink their whole idea of closure.

Free Rieter! :;

 

[Binder]

You do know if you go in reverse the mud will fall off right :redneck:

I can't.......I don't have reverse.:booo::redneck:

 

[NotSoPC]

True. It seems that we need a non profit group to file the paperwork for this. Find that willing group and start gathering signatures should be the first step.

RTW is a non-profit group. I believe we have the proper paperwork done to help on this.

Cool. If the group is willing to be the name for this then it would be a great help. One thing is that the moneys from the plate would need to be split for all the orv areas that we (wheelers/dirt bikers/quad riders) use all over the state. If we want all to help then we need to use it to help all.

Now comes the hard part.. finding 3500 people willing to help. :; I wonder if any will follow the call?

I would be able to get 30-50 signitures just from friends/family. I bet if we stood outside the gates for the swapmeet, we could get easily a thousand. Throw a bike race/event in there, and we would almost have our quota.

I was thinking that we could have some shops around the area help with this. S&S on river road, Billy Bobs, and others. Even have someone stand by a gate at an event would be a big help.:awesomework:

 

[NotSoPC]

Hay Money PM me your e-mail and I will send you the packet. It just showed up in my in-box:awesomework:

 

[Travis1]

It's completely different. If it were the same it would be covered under the same law. One is a criminal issue and one is a monetary issue. A criminal issue must be proven 100% while a monetary issue you only need 51%.

You still have to reasonably prove in civil court that the person you are after is the person who did it. Which means you need a clear shot of their face, in context.

Which is not often gotten, I can count on one hand with digits remaining, the number of times where there was a clear picture of someones face doing something they shouldn't be doing.

On another note, I found out more about the tree thing. It's treated as a civil court matter, but basically you damage or kill a tree, you can/will be pursued for the market value of that tree at maturity. Let's just say each tree is worth $3,000 and you get caught running over ten 12-18" tall recently planted saplings, the state can/will go after you for $30,000 in civil court.

 

[nowires]

On another note, I found out more about the tree thing. It's treated as a civil court matter, but basically you damage or kill a tree, you can/will be pursued for the market value of that tree at maturity. Let's just say each tree is worth $3,000 and you get caught running over ten 12-18" tall recently planted saplings, the state can/will go after you for $30,000 in civil court.

So with this said. Stay in the creek beds :stirpot:

Also if you pay for the tree. Do you get it? :corn:

 

[boardbysled]

$3,000 per tree?:haha:

Travis, its puff-puff pass man, share some of that stuff your smoking.

 

[Travis1]

So with this said. Stay in the creek beds :stirpot:

Also if you pay for the tree. Do you get it? :corn:

You could do that but don't get caught by fish and wildlife. You never know when you might be endangering an invisifish and I bet those fines are worse on the pocket book than a tree.

That would be no. Hell, if you damage a mature tree, you'll probably get to pay for it, and it could just be sold at the next harvest anyway. Or, like a <1yo sapling, it's not like it's a real major loss if you go right back out there and replace it. So, getting what they can out of you for a sapling is like free money.

$3,000 per tree?:haha:

Travis, its puff-puff pass man, share some of that stuff your smoking.

I said, let's just say. But what do you think an 80' tree with an 18-24" base would run?

 

[nowires]

Linky

Timber prices

 

[Money Mark]

I said, let's just say. But what do you think an 80' tree with an 18-24" base would run?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to hear more about the likelyhood of getting caught and the prosecution process. This whole worse case scenario crap is getting boring.

Care to share more on: 1) The difference between LEO - DNR - Sheriff ordinance enforcement (what can and/or can't they do?). 2) secretly placed camera's (video or flash) and what the purpose would be (vandal, theft, dispersed recreation?) 3) Number of actual officer's on the ground in one day (weekends specifically) 4) placement of those officers and the routine of patrol

Give it to me:tits6:I'm a sexy smurf.