naches/manastash memorial day???

[whatthe?]

If Naches is closed it will just push people to Manastash, then it's trails will be closed. My group will just pick a later weekend. This is gov at it's best. Just close it. Close it all year, then they'll never have to deal with it. Nature is to be looked at just don't touch it.

 

[Digger 5]

If Naches is closed it will just push people to Manastash, then it's trails will be closed.

Don't undertsand this^^^^
To me, the Naches area includes the Manashtash area, unless you are referring to the Naches trail which is already closed until July.

 

[Digger 5]

How many of you actualy ran 676 and saw the "Kaner Trail Massacre"? It was muddy but nothing more than normal day at Elbe or Evans in the winter.

I don't see it this way at all.

I've been up there for many MD holidays and it's gotten much worse over the years. I was up there the weekend after MD and the trails were a mess. There were fresh bypasses in many areas. The area below Aardvark Hill was completely trashed and new trail was cut all over it.

The Shoestring area is completely different from Elbe and Evans. It gets much colder and has a different soil composition. A long, hard freeze creates a deep layer of ice which expands the soil. When it thaws the soil is now a layer of goo that can be pretty deep. This is also true in areas where the trail would normally be considered 'hard pack'. While this does happen to Evans and Elbe, it's not to the same degree. The area is so hilly that even an inch of this goo makes it very tough for many wheelers to go anywhere.

So what is different? This has always been the situation so why create an issue now? The difference is the volume of people, especially the ill-eguipped. I'd guess that the number of wheelers hitting the area, especially at MD, is double to triple what it was 10 or 15 years ago.

You might say that we should open new areas to take the load off of that area. Yeah..good luck with that. It ain't gonna happen. Regional population growth has made areas that used to be the sticks now just suburbs.

Most people don't do anything to help the situation and just bitch. To those people I suggest you find a new hobby. Two things will happen if they quit: They'll have a brand new thing to bitch about and it will help ease the load on the trails to those of us that embrace and support the sport.

 

[whatthe?]

Don't undertsand this^^^^
To me, the Naches area includes the Manashtash area, unless you are referring to the Naches trail which is already closed until July.

Manastash is in the Cle Elum ranger district which is separate from the Naches.

 

[Digger 5]

Manastash is in the Cle Elum ranger district which is separate from the Naches.

10-4, that's right. Don't they separate up on the top of the ridge? I don't remember many trials on the CE side (that are still connected to the Shoestring area).

FWIW- As was mentioned earlier, the CE district is also considering the same closure. This would, obviously, effect the largest CE wheeling area, Liberty.

 

[Ty.]

Regardless of urban sprawl, there is still plenty of land left for trails in this state. Shutting area's down, or hoping half of the wheelers quit wheelin' is not the answer.

 

[Binder]

10-4, that's right. Don't they separate up on the top of the ridge? I don't remember many trials on the CE side (that are still connected to the Shoestring area).

As I recall Shoestring (at least some of it) is in the CE ranger district..
I agree. Manastash covers the whole area from I-90 to I-410.

 

[Digger 5]

Regardless of urban sprawl, there is still plenty of land left for trails in this state. Shutting area's down, or hoping half of the wheelers quit wheelin' is not the answer.

We're not going to get new areas. Despite our opinions on available land, it won't happen. There isn't nearly enough political pressure nor a well funded user group to make it happen. What we need to do now is manage what we have and don't let areas get closed due to over use and/or abuse. Reiter is a perfect example.

I really believe that the proposed MD closures have more to do with justifying keeping these areas closed to the MD hordes than any other reason.

 

[Phantom 309]

I'm never going to be "for" closing trails (even if just until a later date) but I can't say I really blame them in this case. We've (wheeling community) have had our chances to fix this over the past years and it hasn't happened. I think mostly because there really isn't a feasible way to keep this from happening. There is just too many people in there during MD on soft ground that just don't give a damn.

If this is what it takes to keep Naches open for the rest of the season...then fine. Until we come up with a better option, this is to be expected.

 

[Boonie Buster]

I'm never going to be "for" closing trails (even if just until a later date) but I can't say I really blame them in this case. We've (wheeling community) have had our chances to fix this over the past years and it hasn't happened. I think mostly because there really isn't a feasible way to keep this from happening. There is just too many people in there during MD on soft ground that just don't give a damn.

If this is what it takes to keep Naches open for the rest of the season...then fine. Until we come up with a better option, this is to be expected.

What chances have we had? Reiter was shut down and you saw an exponential increase in usage at Naches, that's why the trails got hammered. Those trails have been there longer than most of us have been alive and are not anywhere near as dug up and tore to **** as other trails elsewhere. I recall a video posted here last year of the Kaner Flats trail that showed just this. The trail is always slightly muddy at the start of the season. But even the guy that posted the video said they ran the trail up and down several times.... Talk about over use... :booo:

 

[Binder]

Reiter was shut down and you saw an exponential increase in usage at Naches, that's why the trails got hammered.

This has been an issue for much longer than Reiter has been closed.

 

[Digger 5]

What chances have we had? Reiter was shut down and you saw an exponential increase in usage at Naches, that's why the trails got hammered. Those trails have been there longer than most of us have been alive and are not anywhere near as dug up and tore to **** as other trails elsewhere. I recall a video posted here last year of the Kaner Flats trail that showed just this. The trail is always slightly muddy at the start of the season. But even the guy that posted the video said they ran the trail up and down several times.... Talk about over use... :booo:

I understand your point but Naches has been getting hammered long before Reiter closed.

Closing Naches during MD is bad but the potential fallout of more MD damage is much worse.

There are a great many users that only use this area on MD. If closing the area for a short time, like Phantom says, can prevent damage that might jeopardize our access to the area, I'm for the closure.

 

[crash2]

I understand your point but Naches has been getting hammered long before Reiter closed.

Closing Naches during MD is bad but the potential fallout of more MD damage is much worse.

There are a great many users that only use this area on MD. If closing the area for a short time, like Phantom says, can prevent damage that might jeopardize our access to the area, I'm for the closure.

I don't like it but I understand it and for it.

 

[Phantom 309]

What chances have we had?

Maybe I worded that wrong. The chances I was referring to have been all of the years past (as Binder and Digger said.) Every year the problem has gotten worse and worse. We haven't shown that the wheeling community can do anything to prevent it, so it's inevitable that at some point the Ranger District was going to have to step in and try to solve the problem themselves. It sucks that it has come to this, but unfortunetly it just "is what it is."

 

[pokey]

Just as a reminder and for those just tuning in. This is the lower Kaner after Memorial day last year. In pic 2 you can clearly see the bridge where the trail is supposed to be. This is just one place of many that over the years has been hammered like this over memorial day and for good reason the FS is tired of it and doing something about it. I have been going to the Naches / Manashtash area for 30 years and never have I seen the kind of damage and total disregard for our trails that has happened in the last 3 years. The clouser sucks thats for sure but until we learn to police our own and take better care of what we have then this is what were going to get. :booo:

 

[pokey]

Be glad we dont have this to go through here(yet) This was a weed inspection that we had to go through on the Mcgrew trail in oregon last year. The guy reached around every nook and cranny looking for dirt and weeds. We all passed because we had cleaned up spotlessly but in years past people had been denied access due to small amounts of "imported soils" being found on their rigs.

 

[Boonie Buster]

Can you take dirt out? :haha:

 

[Binder]

Be glad we dont have this to go through here(yet) This was a weed inspection that we had to go through on the Mcgrew trail in oregon last year. The guy reached around every nook and cranny looking for dirt and weeds. We all passed because we had cleaned up spotlessly but in years past people had been denied access due to small amounts of "imported soils" being found on their rigs.

Is there an ordinance to support this?:eeek:

 

[pokey]

Is there an ordinance to support this?:eeek:

FS rule. All a ranger (head) needs to do is create a rule and its done. In this case its due to some kind of root rot infection killing the cedar trees but it can be applied anywhere. The FS is getting very involved in controling noxious weeds to the point that the horse folks have to use certified weed free hay for pack in's. The CleElum district has been looking at us for weed control for sometime now. I feel its just a matter of time before we need to make our rigs spotless before going to differant areas.

 

[Binder]

FS rule. All a ranger (head) needs to do is create a rule and its done.

Yes the head ranger can make a rule but there's more to it than just saying "this is the rule". I doubt they have taken the proper steps to make the rule...Even if they did so in Oregon doesn't mean the Ranger in Naches has done the same..