Running trails

KarlVP · Oct 20, 2006

NotMatt said:
Having said that, I agree... sack-up and many of the other trails at Reiter have gotten so ridiculous with bypasses in just the last few years that I've been wheeling there... there are numerous bypasses upon bypasses, and even I have gotten lost and off the trail at times because I didn't know or wasn't sure where the original lines were. That's simply outrageous if you ask me... If there are bypasses, they should be clearly marked as such and no other bypasses should be allowed. If there are no bypasses, fine, people can pull cable or get a tug through an obstacle... that's SOP as far as I'm concerned... but until there's some kind of authority to say what is and what isn't allowed... how can we begin to enforce that kind of thing? The bypasses are already there and established.

I agree with this statement 110%

If there are bypasses, they should be marked from the beginning. And I have been one to winch myself through many a spot I can't make it.

Just.... not everyone has winches.

War-Jeeper · Oct 20, 2006

KarlVP said:
Just.... not everyone has winches.

Like me

There expensive peices of equipment espically when your only 17

Not Jobless · Oct 20, 2006

War-Jeeper said:
Like me

There expensive peices of equipment espically when your only 17

So what you guys are saying is that because you can not afford a winch and being that Reiter is a free-for-all then it is OK to use and make go-arounds on trails?

crash2 · Oct 20, 2006

Jobless said:
So what you guys are saying is that because you can not afford a winch and being that Reiter is a free-for-all then it is OK to use and make go-arounds on trails?

And thats different from origionally building the trail how?

NotMatt · Oct 20, 2006

Now here's where I don't agree with you guys... If you're out with a group of wheelers who are capable enough to get in situations where they need to be able to winch out of, at least one should have a winch... IMO. That's how this bypass crap gets started... rigs that aren't capable of making it through the trail (and by capable, I mean also equipped with a winch for when you can't make it with your own 4 tires and the go pedal) get out and get themselves in too deep.

Not Jobless · Oct 20, 2006

crash said:
And thats different from origionally building the trail how?

Because building trails does not require making go-arounds & bypasses

War-Jeeper · Oct 20, 2006

Jobless said:
So what you guys are saying is that because you can not afford a winch and being that Reiter is a free-for-all then it is OK to use and make go-arounds on trails?

NO nvm peace out of this thread i dont want to get into a big debate about some freeking go arounds. Plus when i ran the trail i wasnt informed it was a go around. Anyway im done with this cause its going no where fast

Freeride · Oct 20, 2006

War-Jeeper said:
Like me

There expensive peices of equipment espically when your only 17

Cheaper than a plasma cutter :flipoff: Just flippin you shat.

War-Jeeper · Oct 20, 2006

crash said:
And thats different from origionally building the trail how?

Mike what is you view on all of this anyway im truly curious

NotMatt · Oct 20, 2006

Jobless said:
So what you guys are saying is that because you can not afford a winch and being that Reiter is a free-for-all then it is OK to use and make go-arounds on trails?

No. You're missing my point.

I never said it was ok. Did you not read the part where I said I was playing devil's advocate?

My point is... who's going to stop the people that DO feel it's ok? You? Me? I'm not the Reiter police and neither are you. The LANDOWNERS are the Reiter police, and until they step up and say one way or the other, none of us have the authority to say where the trail is or isn't, bypasses and all. I don't care if you were the one person who originally created the trail or you wheeled it when it was still one single line all the way through, it's still a bootleg trail with no official line... and as such, we can bitch and moan all we want, but people are going to make bypasses... and short of education, there isn't a way we can stop it.

Having said that, I don't think sack-up is the trail to take noobs on... if you are going for education, then you'll be winching everyone through lots of places when they can't make it, and it will take all day long.

I think we agree, we just don't know it.

[EDIT]: For clarification, if you were to take noobs through sackup and tell them taking bypasses is not ok, then you would be in for a long day. On the other hand, if your idea of sticking to the trail means that you stay on what's established and you don't bushwack through the woods, then the ESTABLISHED by passes would be fair game. This is what I'm getting at... there is lots of established trail on sackup... there's no official trail, but lots that's established.

War-Jeeper · Oct 20, 2006

Freeride said:
Cheaper than a plasma cutter :flipoff: Just flippin you shat.

The plasma cutter is for school, so i can practice stuff at home and i dont know how to justify my parents buying me a winch seems how i cant afford it

crash2 · Oct 20, 2006

War-Jeeper said:
Mike what is you view on all of this anyway im truly curious

Myself--I stick to origional lines and I don't build bypass's and I don't run bypass's.

If a trail is to a point that I don't belong I don't do it.

Does reiter have any bypass's--it doesn't (but yet I stick to the origional lines because they are fun that way).

Do you create a bypass when you build a trail--yup you sure do...

With that said there is no right or wrong way "at reiter". should we try and educate folks to stay on the lines already made--hell yes...

crash2 · Oct 20, 2006

Jobless said:
Because building trails does not require making go-arounds & bypasses

whats a go around or a bypass? a "trail" ???

NotMatt · Oct 20, 2006

crash said:
With that said there is no right or wrong way "at reiter". should we try and educate folks to stay on the lines already made--hell yes...

Exackery. Educate people that cutting bypasses through the woods is not ok from the beginning, and there will be no bypasses.

Telling them that they can only take certain lines out of ones that are already established in an area that has no official established trails to begin with? That's funny logic.

crash2 · Oct 20, 2006

But in all honesty brad I have to agree with you 100%--that cannot be denied. People need to either be equiped to run the trail as is or stay off it.

What about this side of the coin.. What is byass's were there to keep folks from either tearing up the hard spots or from them creating "more" byass's? Its a total double edge sword...

Not Jobless · Oct 20, 2006

crash said:
whats a go around or a bypass? a "trail" ???

A TRAIL is simply a path from point A to point B.

An OBSTACLE is something on a TRAIL that provides a challenge to those USERS of the TRAIL.

A USER, in our case, is an offroad motor vehicle operator (man & machine)

A BYPASS is something made on a TRAIL to avoid an OBSTACLE that a USER is not equiped either mechanicaly, physically or emotionally to overcome on that TRAIL.

crash2 · Oct 20, 2006

Jobless said:
A TRAIL is simply a path from point A to point B.

An OBSTACLE is something on a TRAIL that provides a challenge to those USERS of the TRAIL.

A USER, in our case, is an offroad motor vehicle operator (man & machine)

A BYPASS is something made on a TRAIL to avoid an OBSTACLE that a USER is not equiped either mechanicaly, physically or emotionally to overcome on that TRAIL.

What about BYS--that bypass's the big mud hole and the other portion of trail thru the trees..???

OldGreen · Oct 20, 2006

NotMatt said:
Again, let me re-iterate, I AGREE with you OG... there's no excuse for cutting through the woods around an obstacle that's "too hard"... but unless you or I want to go play trail cop and follow everybody around and through the trail, I don't see a reasonable solution other than having some kind of official status so that blocks for bypasses can be created/maintained and handing out tickets for violators can be done by somebody with the authority to do it.

At Naches, if there is an illegal by-pass or the trail is moved because of resource damage, they paint big orange Xs on the trees around the illegal route and put arrows on the legal route. If there is too many routes then WE (with permission/guidance from the FS) cable big ass trees together to funnel everyone in the right direction (been up the big climb on the way to funny/moon lately?). In your area, the organization (RTW along with the gov land managers) should decide what the route will be and mark it then do what is necessary to block off the go-arounds. I have seen it happen that the original route isn't the official one for one reason or another (environmental). That is fine as long as everyone sticks to the same trail. In the mean time, until that is done, you have to make an effort to stay on the original line. It is part of the code. If you don't know the original line, then there is no excuse for finding out.

There may be a case, when a trail is BUILT or MAPPED that an obstacle is deemed "optional". That means that the trail IS the go around and it is optional to do the big obstacle, not the other way around.

Not Jobless · Oct 20, 2006

crash said:
What about BYS--that bypass's the big mud hole and the other portion of trail thru the trees..???

From what I can remember BYS started life as a TRAIL...not a bypass for the mudhole.

Binder · Oct 20, 2006

Trying to put definitions on things like bypasses and such really isn't going to help anyone as there is always exceptions to the rule. Speaking of rules like NotMat said there really aren't any to speak of. There's no rule to yield to a broken rig coming down the trail. There's no rule to not park in the middle of the trail and go sight see while everyone else gets stuck behind you. There's no rule (at Reiter) to stay on a specific path. The answer to all of this is just general education and if everyone knows what their supposed to do, rule or not maybe then we will all respect each other and not do too many stupid things. Maybe even leave something worthwhile behind for the next guy to wheel.:stirpot: