Firing folks

[money_pit_yj]

Apparently I am a little to blunt when letting people go. One of the shops I inherited (by default not by choice) has lost money for a long time so our Board of directors decided to shut her down. When I told the crew this morning, they said I needed sensitivity training. I walked in and said "Morning guys, I just wanted to call you guys in and let you know that we were closing the shop. It has lost money for a long time and we are not in a position to let the rest of the business supplement it so we are going to close it effective immediately. Any questions?" It was done, was I supposed to sugar coat it? We sat and talked about all the details and stuff afterward, but they said I was cruel for doing it like that The only thing that made it any better was that I started calling one of them Craig cause he got fired on his day off like Ice T in Friday and that seemed to lighten the load a little. How do you fire people when you have to?

 

[dynajeep]

Doesn't sound too bad. I guess the questions I have are did they know it wasn't making money? Maybe a months notice would be fare since you've known for a long time it wasn't making money.

 

[J.A.B]

.

 

[jwilson645]

The only issue I see with it is that it was effective immediately. Otherwise, seemed like a pretty good speech.

 

[patooyee]

We closed one of our stores down back in April. Its tricky. We ended up giving them 2 weeks notice and offered everyone that stayed until the last day 2 weeks of severance pay in addition to any vacation time accrued. All but two of the newest guys stayed. I had a big meeting to let them all know, it was somewhat emotional since so many people had been there for years and I had watched some of the kids grow into young adults. I think anything like that is going to be emotional no matter what. They weren't expecting your lack of emotion which turned what would have been sympathy and empathy into anger.

As an owner I see dollars and cents. Yes, I pour my lifeblood into it, but when I do so and see the P&L's with negative NOI it got to a point where I was actually looking forward to closing it down. I look at it as somewhat of a failure, but also an opportunity to move on, devote my time to more profitable endeavors. But those people working for you sacrifice, put emotion into it, and support families with it. Its not a relief to them, it is a whole new headache and a a future of uncertainty. They know that you will go on and be OK, they don't have that same guarantee for their families. Being nonchalant about it says to them that you never gave a **** about them to begin with and that hurts. Maybe its not true, but that's the message it sends.

 

[mna0121]

I once got one of my employees out of jail then fired her. Ain't I the sweetest thing. She returned the favor by filing for unemployment on me.

 

[joho75287]

How you going going to get fired on your day off , Craig ?

Why you stealing boxes Craig??

 

[matth_85]

The only thing that made it any better was that I started calling one of them Craig cause he got fired on his day off like Ice T in Friday and that seemed to lighten the load a little.

That is great. LMFAO.

I would say it would have been appropriate to give them some notice though. You wouldn't want someone to quit on you w/o notice.

 

[rodcycle]

I hate to see people loose their jobs, but I dont mind being the one to let them go. It's black and white to me.... there should be no feelings from the one that is letting the other go.

 

[pholmann]

A 2 week notice at least would have been the only change.

 

[patooyee]

You can't just give people notice that you are closing in 2 weeks because you won't have any employees for the next 2 weeks. You need to close the business respectfully and gracefully from the customer's POV as well.

Firing people who want to work is the only firing that I hate, and it is the worst part of my job. Just the other day I had to let a guy go who had 2 kids, was ecstatic to be working, was working his ass off, putting all his mind and heart into it. He just wasn't physically capable of handling the speed though and it was obvious that he was slowing the whole place down. That one sucked.

The ones who don't show up constantly because they're hung over or want to go surfing can bite me. I thoroughly enjoy letting those ones go. Sometimes I even make those ones into games to see how hilarious I can make their termination.

 

[pholmann]

Well if they choose to leave it that way then it's on them. The location was already losing money. The ones that do care at least have two weeks to find other employment.

 

[joho75287]

My situation is with a corporation, so lots more rules and guidelines established.

If it's for performance, the affected knows its coming because of the process we follow which is basically a 3 warning system. So there generally aren't any surprises (even though some try to act surprised because that's how they think they need to act).

If its for attendance, there are no surprises, because we have a cut and dry attendance policy with points that are given based on the occurrence (full day out with call in, full day out with no call in, early exit, late to work etc). Points roll off on a rolling 12 month system.

If its a layoff due to lack of volume - there aren't any surprises there either because I have monthly communication meetings with everyone in the plant and one of the things I specifically speak about is volume as well as our monthly/quarterly and annualized performance to budget and to financial estimate.

If it's something like a plant closure, well there is plenty of warning and writing on the wall.

So if its the two things they can control (attendance and performance (and attitude is part of performance)) they basically fire themselves. I used to get upset when I had to do it. Not any longer. They know where they stand and if they choose not to come to work or perform their job then its on them.

 

[al1tonyota]

That's the reason why I feel how I do about leaving a job also! I'm not working a 2week notice when in the case of me getting fired I wouldn't get a notice it's as simple as that I don't give a **** if it puts them in a bind because on the other side of the page they equally don't care if I can continue to pay my bills and all that. I have had several heated conversations with people about this. I work I do my job if it's not good enough and the employer lets me know a few times and I'm just not picking up and doing the job right I would show respect and let them know I was going to leave. Other than that

The company I currently work for sends a hr manager to pick you up on a Taylor Dunn buggy and escorts you to your vehicle! Usually this happens several hours into your shift. When I leave here I will take all of my vacation then call and tell them I'm not coming back!

 

[money_pit_yj]

A 2 week notice at least would have been the only change.

We thought about that, but they have known for a year that me coming in was a hail mary. They knew that things were getting tough and in the past three months their lack of attention to detail and doing the job right has cost me about $5,000. This kept us from them being a liability. There are a ton of reasons why it was losing money. It all boils down to the fact that our shop was treated as a stepchild and got no attention because it served our biggest customers, but money is getting tight and we do not have the extra profit to supplement the shop. I gave them two weeks pay plus they get 100% of their PTO and company policy is only 80%. I feel like they got a fair shake, plus I am heklping them find new jobs and work out their insurance and benefits.

 

[patooyee]

That's the reason why I feel how I do about leaving a job also! I'm not working a 2week notice when in the case of me getting fired I wouldn't get a notice it's as simple as that I don't give a **** if it puts them in a bind because on the other side of the page they equally don't care if I can continue to pay my bills and all that. I have had several heated conversations with people about this. I work I do my job if it's not good enough and the employer lets me know a few times and I'm just not picking up and doing the job right I would show respect and let them know I was going to leave. Other than that

The company I currently work for sends a hr manager to pick you up on a Taylor Dunn buggy and escorts you to your vehicle! Usually this happens several hours into your shift. When I leave here I will take all of my vacation then call and tell them I'm not coming back!

Remind me never to hire you!

 

[joho75287]

I once got one of my employees out of jail then fired her. Ain't I the sweetest thing. She returned the favor by filing for unemployment on me.

Shawn - your the sweetest guy I know... :Joc:

 

[patooyee]

I gave them two weeks pay plus they get 100% of their PTO and company policy is only 80%.

Oh, well then you did give them 2 weeks notice effectively. Better because they are getting paid to job hunt for the next 2 weeks. You didn't say that to begin with. Maybe your delivery was crass but you did everything responsibly financially IMHO.

 

[pholmann]

We thought about that, but they have known for a year that me coming in was a hail mary. They knew that things were getting tough and in the past three months their lack of attention to detail and doing the job right has cost me about $5,000. This kept us from them being a liability. There are a ton of reasons why it was losing money. It all boils down to the fact that our shop was treated as a stepchild and got no attention because it served our biggest customers, but money is getting tight and we do not have the extra profit to supplement the shop. I gave them two weeks pay plus they get 100% of their PTO and company policy is only 80%. I feel like they got a fair shake, plus I am heklping them find new jobs and work out their insurance and benefits.

You didn't say that. You gave them severance so you did fine.

 

[money_pit_yj]

You didn't say that. You gave them severance so you did fine.

Oh, well then you did give them 2 weeks notice effectively. Better because they are getting paid to job hunt for the next 2 weeks. You didn't say that to begin with. Maybe your delivery was crass but you did everything responsibly financially IMHO.

Sorry, those were the details we discussed.