Having a 7.3 is fun...timing is great

[nick c]

Coming down to the wire for 2 trips I'm supposed to take the tow rig on, 1 trip each weekend for the next 2 weekends. This weekends trip would be a bummer to miss, as it's my cousins graduation but if I did miss it not the end of the world. However the following weekend is already paid for and short of buying a new truck, I am not planning on missing it.

Last weekend it started with a hiccup, it matched the common signs of a CPS so I grabbed one from Napa and threw it in. Truck seemed to run fine the next day, but I didn't put many miles on it. However the Check Engine Light (CEL) would come on as soon as the truck started.

Gavin and I hooked it up to his scanner, got nothing. I tried Rick's scanner, a craftsman OBD 2 handheld. Nothing again. Tonight we used a friends Snap-on scanner, and found a code eventually.

1280 - ICP low voltage

Also, during a self-test mode on the scanner it also popped up with a Exhaust Back Pressure Valve code but I don't recall the number.

I tried the Ford wiggle on the plug, but nothing really changed. Although nothing was happening before either. So I said we'd try again tomorrow after Gavin had a chance to look up info at work.

On the trip home, she started acting up again. Around 1400 rpm she surges, and occasionally would hiccup. However on the highway cruising above 1500 RPM I had no issues.

Being new to the diesel/7.3 game I did some brief reading and I talked to Kevin, as he is my 7.3 go-to-guy.

I have a few parts to check,
the wire harness that hooks up to the ICP
The ICP itself
The Exhaust Back Pressure sensor and tube - they can get clogged from soot?!?
And the IPR duty cycle, not sure how to check that.

This truck's timing sucks balls. :looser:

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

Have to use a scanner to check duty cycle. Yes, the EBP tube is very likely plugged with carbon. I usually take them off and clean them with brakleen.

 

[ChopTop84]

You need my autoenginuity scanner. ford/international was not required to meet the exact OBD2 spec, so the majority of OBD2 readers dont work correctly. My AE can do the IPR duty cycle monitoring, that a reader cant do.

ICP sensors do fail. They have to monitor 3000+ psi pressures. Thats hard work.

Pull the icp plug out of the sensor, and use a pair of needlenose pliers to gently squeeze the female pins tighter. Also, look inside the sensor itself and make sure there is no oil or fluid inside with the pins. If so, the sensor is probably failing.

ICP and IPR create a feedback loop. If one acts up, the other tries to compensate, and it can create a surge or rough idle.

Ideally you would monitor the ICP and IPR readings with a live scanner while the truck is acting up and see which one acts up first.

whats your schedule?

 

[t1h5ta3]

also worth noteing that napa cam position sensors suck.
oem or IH ones are the way to go.
theres 3 diferent ones that are " interchangeable " black, grey and dark blue.
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C

most people report smoother running with black, but usualy about a 1 mpg loss vs dk bl

 

[nick c]

Thanks for the info.

The plug on the ICP looked dry when I pulled it off last night. I'll give the pins a little massage with the needle nose before I head back over tonight and see if it makes a difference.

Sounds like pulling the EBP tube a cleaning with brake clean would also be a good start as well. I'll Google it, but is that something that is easily accessed?

 

[nick c]

also worth noteing that napa cam position sensors suck.
oem or IH ones are the way to go.
theres 3 diferent ones that are " interchangeable " black, grey and dark blue.
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C

most people report smoother running with black, but usualy about a 1 mpg loss vs dk bl

I had read about the different colored CPS's, I guess I misunderstood and thought that was before the recall years back.

Where can you pick up one of the good sensors black/dk blue locally? Does Ford stock those?

 

[ChopTop84]

black was the original sensor from international. There are actually two flavors. silver pins and gold pins. early trucks used one type of connector material, and later trucks used the other. If you mixed the two colors, you could create electrolysis and corrode the pins over time. Slime the connectors with dielectric grease to prevent.

grey was the cheap-o low quality sensor ford came out with just in time for the cps recall. They were getting good money selling a hundred dollar sensor, but they only wanted to give away a 20 dollar replacement.

Blue color was not designed for the 7.3. Its actually the stock sensor for the T466E motor (the big inline six in medium duty trucks and busses). Someone decided their truk ran better with blue, and it took off like wildfire. I believe there is a slight timing change between blue and the other colors. May have to do with where inside the sensor the hall effect is picked up.

If you had the choice, it would be black, blue, grey in that order.

EDIT: hmmm. Ford has its OWN blue now I see, looks like the replacement for the grey. I guess be careful which blue one you get.

 

[hlb3]

When my CPS crapped out on the old truck, I replaced it with a black one, the truck ran so much better. I got it from Rock Auto.

**edit** Just checked, apparently I have the "dark blue" one, the one with the purple o-ring.

 

[hlb3]

If you need one right away, I do have a brand new spare in the dashbox of the truck.

 

[nick c]

I pulled the EBP tube when I got home, it wasn't all that plugged I could feel air coming out the other end when I blew through it with my mouth.

I shot brakekleen through it anyway and got a small amount of carbon out of it.

Heading over to Gavin's place to check out some tests he read up on today while at work.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

I may have to head over and supervise..

 

[ChopTop84]

I pulled the EBP tube when I got home, it wasn't all that plugged I could feel air coming out the other end when I blew through it with my mouth.

I shot brakekleen through it anyway and got a small amount of carbon out of it.

Heading over to Gavin's place to check out some tests he read up on today while at work.

Its pretty common to smoke the sensor. Thats a lot of heat coming up that tube, and it will cook the sensor. Pretty common to replace. Its kinda of a non-issue sensor. It helps control the warmup valve on the turbo more than anything. If the sensor doesnt work, the computer wont close the warmup valve.

 

[nick c]

So Gavin, while Jeff and I watched, did some more testing.

He would have to give you the exact numbers but we were thinking it was the wiring. He was getting 1 voltage at the sensor but the Snap-On scanner he was using was displaying a different voltage for the ICP.

So I drove home with the ICP unplugged and had no issues. It drove fine. Me being me, when I got home I figured I'd test it. So I plugged it back in and drove out to Graham, didn't have any issues. Although I did think the truck seemed to run a little rougher. But that could be all mental, me just looking for something.

On the way back from Graham the CEL went out so I thought for sure it was going to start stumbling and bucking like it had been doing as thats what usually happens the CEL goes out and then it acts up. Then the CEL comes back on and it runs normal.

But this time the CEL went out and it didn't stumble or buck, and the CEL came back on about 30 seconds later. And no issues the rest of the way home.

Daryl, if we don't end up going down to Corvalis this weekend I'd be interested in bringing it out and having you plug into it. Gavin and Jeff both say you know your 7.3's. :awesomework:

 

[ChopTop84]

thats the problem with these newer electronic diesels, if you dont have the right computer program, you cant really troubleshoot them like you can mechanical diesels.

let me know. Im more free during the week than I am this weekend. sunday evening would be good for me if it has to be the weekend.

 

[nick c]

So I'm trying to find a couple parts and not having much luck

a - the good CPS. Les you must have just gotten lucky when you ordered on RockAuto. 2 of the listings show both the -A and -B part numbers so you don't know what you'll get for sure. This listing doesn't give a part number but the picture shows a black one. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1830384&cc=1127090

I tried using the part numbers and doing a Google or Amazon search and didn't get much luck. I could try ebay but again you gotta hope you get what you ordered.

B - the repair harness, not just the repair pig tail for the ICP only. Kevin mentioned you can find a harness that has all 3 connectors on it. Versus just the single pig tail. Gavin was going to try Ford for me today through his account but I can't seem to find one online.

 

[hlb3]

Here is the one I ordered, I searched under a 1995, it was the only Motorcraft one on there, $20.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1152048&cc=1124918

I also pulled it up by typing DU87 in the part number search.

 

[zukkev]

So I'm trying to find a couple parts and not having much luck

a - the good CPS. Les you must have just gotten lucky when you ordered on RockAuto. 2 of the listings show both the -A and -B part numbers so you don't know what you'll get for sure. This listing doesn't give a part number but the picture shows a black one. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1830384&cc=1127090

I tried using the part numbers and doing a Google or Amazon search and didn't get much luck. I could try ebay but again you gotta hope you get what you ordered.

B - the repair harness, not just the repair pig tail for the ICP only. Kevin mentioned you can find a harness that has all 3 connectors on it. Versus just the single pig tail. Gavin was going to try Ford for me today through his account but I can't seem to find one online.

The ICP sensor repair Pigtail alone is what I was trying to explain to you what fails, it has 3 wires in it, and the wires break right at the crimp inside the plug......I had a lot going on when you called, so maybe I wasn't real clear---sorry!

 

[nick c]

The ICP sensor repair Pigtail alone is what I was trying to explain to you what fails, it has 3 wires in it, and the wires break right at the crimp inside the plug......I had a lot going on when you called, so maybe I wasn't real clear---sorry!

Cool thanks for the update. Now maybe the Ford guy isn't such an idiot. I kept telling him no, they have to sell one that has 3 plugs on it my buddy who knows these trucks told me so. :redneck:

 

[nick c]

Went over to Daryl's last night, got over later then I wanted because of the power line down accross the Orting Highway but I'm glad I went.

Once we got the Auto Enginuity up and running, it was a cool tool to see. And the guy knows these motors. Being a total noob to diesels it was great to get some knowledge from him.

:awesomework:

Im going to swing by Int'l today on my way home from work and see if they have the ICP instock, and one of the good CPS's to swap in and I'll keep this grey one as a spare.

 

[nick c]

And he showed me why I'm also getting the EBPV error, when the prior owner did the intercooler, he has the EBPV tied open. So that explains why that error code gets thrown.

And I need to move my Pyro sensor, prior owner installed it after the turbo. So my trip over Vantage where I was thinking I was running all cool at 8-9, with the occasional 1000 bump could have been alot hotter.