IBP's versus Bypasses

[kmcminn]

Looking at doing some shock upgrades sometime in the future. I like the idea of ibp shocks cause I wouldnt have to change my mounts. With Ibp's I would have to buy new springs. So the price comes up a wash, time I mount the bypasses.

Anyone dealt with any internal bypass shocks? Are they remotely close in performance to a coil carrier and bypass setup. I know they arent going to be as good.

This is a pipe dream. No plans in doing this anytime soon. Just like the buggy maybe next week.

 

[slravenel]

What shocks are you running now? What are you trying to eliminate that they do?

IPBs are absolutely great shocks, but they require some real tuning time to make them what you want - but thats the key... "what you want" is missed by so many people. They think that slapping more shocks on will make things better when in reality it might just make things a lot more complicated when it might not need to be that hard

 

[wizzo]

IBP coil over won't be close in performance to a proper coil over & bypass set up. But, as Lee said, it depends on your end goal. Another option may be just a larger shock in general.

 

[kmcminn]

I'm running Fox 2.0 emulsion . I have considered throwing some reserviors on. I'm sure that would help.

 

[slravenel]

I'm running Fox 2.0 emulsion . I have considered throwing some reserviors on. I'm sure that would help.

that would help IMMENSELY - the performance difference between a 2.0 emulsion vs a 2.0 resi is crazy...and then even to a 2.5 resi

I think in your case, you have a much simpler (and cheaper) solution than adding more shocks (or an IPB setup). Get that thing on some shocks with reservoirs and get some good tuning time in with Wizzo and you'll be light years ahead of where you are.

 

[wizzo]

x100000 add reservoirs and tuning at that point. It's a world of difference. I did this recently for Ryan Vanzant on his WOD buggy. If you know him, ask him about it.

 

[TBItoy]

are 2.0s or 2.5s "better/easier" to tune for an average size trail buggy ?

 

[slravenel]

are 2.0s or 2.5s "better/easier" to tune for an average size trail buggy ?

Im not sure I would necessarily say one is "easier" to tune than the other when someone who knows what they are doing is working on them... but you can get "more" out of a 2.5 in the end if that makes sense. You think they are only 1/2" bigger...but putting one next to the other and the 2.0 looks like a toy. You get so much more out of a 2.5 shock, but again...thats not saying that everyone needs 2.5s to be happy with their setup. 2.0s with resis on a normal trail rig are plenty enough to make anyone happy who is coming from 2.0 untuned emulsions (or even untuned resis)

 

[TBItoy]

Im not sure I would necessarily say one is "easier" to tune than the other when someone who knows what they are doing is working on them... but you can get "more" out of a 2.5 in the end if that makes sense. You think they are only 1/2" bigger...but putting one next to the other and the 2.0 looks like a toy. You get so much more out of a 2.5 shock, but again...thats not saying that everyone needs 2.5s to be happy with their setup. 2.0s with resis on a normal trail rig are plenty enough to make anyone happy who is coming from 2.0 untuned emulsions (or even untuned resis)

I was thinking just the geometry of a larger piston and larger shims in the 2.5 would make the stack more tunable, since the shim stack is essentially a "longer spring" in the.

Wasn't sure if that was common knowlege/practice in the real world.

 

[BUG-E J]

I'd love to have some 2.5 dsc's at least on the back of mine. I would need faster steering before the front slowed me down they are about perfect

 

[slravenel]

I was thinking just the geometry of a larger piston and larger shims in the 2.5 would make the stack more tunable, since the shim stack is essentially a "longer spring" in the.

Wasn't sure if that was common knowlege/practice in the real world.

It starts to go into theory land pretty quickly when you are talking about trail rigs - it doesnt all really directly translate into seat of the pants, real world differences when you are talking about a set of shocks on a 3500lbs trail rig with 4" of uptravel that never goes faster than 25 mph. That all being said, I do have 2.5 resi coilovers on my ~4000lbs buggy (with about 7-8" uptravel) and I can tell you that there is no possible way that I could out drive those shocks. The potential for the top end of the tune is a lot more in a 2.5 than it is a 2.0 ... but again, real world vs potential isnt something to ignore either.

You never hear anyone say that they wish they had a smaller shock in a single shock application...but that can also get screwy when you are slapping bypasses with the wrong tube counts on axle mounted situations and not tuning them right...MORE shocks are not always the right answer

 

[slravenel]

I'd love to have some 2.5 dsc's at least on the back of mine. I would need faster steering before the front slowed me down they are about perfect

Why DSC? just curious...

 

[BUG-E J]

So I can play with them myself. I trail ride alot but also race. They are a little soft in the rear right now for racing but they ride amazing outside of that

 

[wizzo]

are 2.0s or 2.5s "better/easier" to tune for an average size trail buggy ?

IMO it really depends on the buggy and the suspension set up. On a 2k lb buggy 2.5's would be harder to tune than 2.0's. It's about the right part for the right application.

I'd love to have some 2.5 dsc's at least on the back of mine. I would need faster steering before the front slowed me down they are about perfect

DSC's aren't gonna do a whole lot. But hey, they're cool right?

 

[screamn56]

Okay not to highjack this but..What does a tuning session run????

 

[slravenel]

So I can play with them myself. I trail ride alot but also race. They are a little soft in the rear right now for racing but they ride amazing outside of that

Like Wizzo said, DSCs aren't going to do a whole lot. They are kinda a gimmick really. It's not totally the same, but it's almost like if you had a knob on your engine tune that said less fuel 1 - more fuel 9. Turning that would give you more fuel...you are only changing one teeny tiny piece of the puzzle with a DSC and nothing else. I would take a correctly tuned shock and never play with anything. It's going to ride better in almost every situation than you can get with any amount of playing with clickers in the world.

 

[BUG-E J]

I've played with some before. Seemed to work well on a Rockwell rig so I just assumed I would be happy with them. The biggest reason I havent changed shocks yet is the only person I trust to tune them is retired at the moment.

 

[slravenel]

I've played with some before. Seemed to work well on a Rockwell rig so I just assumed I would be happy with them. The biggest reason I havent changed shocks yet is the only person I trust to tune them is retired at the moment.

you need to get on the books with Wizzo! He's learned from and works with one of the best in the business and you have zero reason to not trust them to get that thing riding 1000x better than it is (from what it sounds like, I havent ever seen it in person). People didnt used to believe me at first when I would tell them how much better a buggy performs when its tuned. They saw it as a waste of money to play with the inside of shocks....but man every single one of those people is now on tuned shocks and cruising obstacles that were beating them up before

Im telling you...a (good) tune job on whatever current shocks you have will be infinitely better than no tune no matter what setup you have

 

[kmcminn]

I am no guru but I have also heard the dsc are more of gimic than good.

 

[squeak12]

I'd lean towards a reservoir set up, especially considering a trail rig versus something more race oriented. As indirectly mentioned, getting the nitrogen out of the oil and adding extra oil capacity should make a pretty big difference.